Slow Burn

In 1980, a variety show debuted on NBC called Pink Lady and Jeff. Its stars were a pair of Japanese pop idols known for catchy, choreographed dance numbers. Pink Lady was inescapable in Japan: selling millions of records, appearing on TV daily, and filling arenas. But their American TV show left audiences completely bewildered. Pink Lady and Jeff acquired legendary status as one of television’s most notorious bombs, a show that managed to kill off the entire variety show genre. Or at least—that’s how it’s been seen in America. But for the two women of Pink Lady, the show was something else. In this episode, Decoder Ring’s Evan Chung puts this so-called “megaflop” in the spotlight to find out what really went wrong. You’ll hear from Mie and Keiko Masuda of Pink Lady, their co-host Jeff Altman, head writer Mark Evanier, and legendary TV producer Sid Krofft of H.R. Pufnstuf fame. This episode was written and produced by Evan Chung. It was edited by Willa Paskin. Our translator was Eric Margolis. Decoder Ring is also produced by Max Freedman and Katie Shepherd, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Special thanks to Kelly Killian, Lorne Frohman, Rowby Goren, Michael Lloyd, Cheyna Roth, Karin Fjellman, Cole delCharco, and Hannah Airriess. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com Want more Decoder Ring? Subscribe to Slate Plus to unlock exclusive bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of the Decoder Ring show page. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus to get access wherever you listen. Disclosure: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The fear that the Earth could be destroyed by a killer asteroid is an anxiety that pops up all the time in fiction and is grounded in fact. But funnily enough—actually being pancaked by a giant space rock? Not something you need to spend a whole lot of time worrying about! And that’s because a bunch of NASA scientists and engineers are already worried about it for us. In this episode, science journalist Dr. Robin George Andrews tells us the story of NASA’s first-ever mission to defend the planet, which is the subject of his new book, How to Kill an Asteroid. This episode was written and produced by Sofie Kodner. It was edited by Willa Paskin and Evan Chung. Decoder Ring is produced by Willa Paskin, Evan Chung, Max Freedman and Katie Shepherd, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com Want more Decoder Ring? Subscribe to Slate Plus to unlock exclusive bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of the Decoder Ring show page. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There is a prominent bird in the 2000 film Charlie’s Angels that makes absolutely no sense. This so-called Pygmy Nuthatch doesn’t look or sound like it should, or live where the characters say it does. The bird is so elaborately wrong that it has haunted the birding community, including Slate’s very own Forrest Wickman, for almost a quarter of a century. In this episode, Forrest embarks on a wild goose chase: Why can’t hundreds of filmmaking professionals with a $100 million budget accurately portray a single bird? This episode was reported and written by Forrest Wickman. It was edited by Willa Paskin. It was produced by Max Freedman. Decoder Ring is produced by Willa Paskin, Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd, and Max Freedman with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. In this episode, you’ll hear from Charlie’s Angels screenwriters John August and Zak Penn, director McG, animal trainer Guin Dill, and sound editor Michael Benavente; and bird experts Nick Lund, Nathan Pieplow, and Drew Weber. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com Want more Decoder Ring? Subscribe to Slate Plus to unlock exclusive bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of the Decoder Ring show page. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus to get access wherever you listen. Disclosure in Podcast Description: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whatever happened to selling out? The defining concern of Generation X has become a relic from another era. How that happened is best illustrated by one of the idea’s last gasps, when in 2001, Oprah Winfrey invited author Jonathan Franzen to come on her show to discuss his new novel The Corrections. A month later, she withdrew the invitation, kicking off a media firestorm. The Oprah-Franzen Book Club Dust-Up of 2001 was a moment when two ways of thinking about selling out smashed into each other, and one of them—the one that was on its way out already—crashed and burned in public, seldom to be seen again. Some of the voices you’ll hear in this episode include screenwriter Helen Childress; writer and musician Franz Nicolay; New York Times critic Wesley Morris, Oprah producer Alice McGee; Boris Kachka, author of Hothouse: The Art of Survival and the Survival of Art at America’s Most Celebrated Publishing House, Farrar, Straus, and Giroux; Bethany Klein, author of Selling Out: Culture, Commerce and Popular Music; and Laura Miller, Slate’s book critic. This episode was written by Willa Paskin and produced by Benjamin Frisch. It was edited by Benjamin Frisch and Gabriel Roth. Cleo Levin was our research assistant. Decoder Ring is produced by Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd, and Max Freedman, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. If you haven’t yet, please subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you’re a fan of the show, please sign up for Slate Plus. Members get to listen to Decoder Ring and all other Slate podcasts without any ads and have total access to Slate’s website. Your support is also crucial to our work. Go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today. Disclosure: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(While we work on the next season of Slow Burn we're showcasing new episodes from Slate's narrative podcast Decoder Ring.) Oscar-winner Warren Beatty first secured the rights to the comic book character Dick Tracy in the lead up to his 1990 movie adaptation. Decades later, Beatty kept playing Tracy in bizarre late-night specials airing on cable TV, that confounded nearly everyone. Why is one of the most famous movie stars of the 20th century, spending the twilight of his career playing a comic strip detective of dwindling renown? In this episode, we investigate: What’s going on between Warren Beatty and Dick Tracy? This episode was written by Willa Paskin. It was edited by Lacy Roberts and Evan Chung. It was produced by Sofie Kodner. Decoder Ring is produced by Willa Paskin, Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd and Max Freedman. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. In this episode, you’ll hear from author and artist Ryan Estrada, journalist Kim Masters, comic book store owner Matt Live, and media lawyer Celia Muller. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com Want more Decoder Ring? Subscribe to Slate Plus to unlock exclusive bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of the Decoder Ring show page. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The 2004 presidential race would be the first fully Fox News election—a contest that was framed by Fox, and fought on its terms. But the fight over Fox News was about more than just partisan politics. It also launched covert ops against reporters and let loose a secret army of online trolls. And when a Fox producer made serious allegations against Bill O’Reilly, the network showed just how far it would go to defend its biggest star—no matter the cost. To read our full reporting on the most recent legal actions between Bill O'Reilly and Andrea Mackris, and learn more about how a non-disclosure agreement from two decades ago has kept Mackris silent, go to slate.com/foxnda. Want more from Slow Burn? Join Slate Plus to unlock full access to all seasons, including members-only bonus episodes from The Rise of Fox News. You'll also enjoy ad-free listening to all of your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now by clicking "Try Free" at the top of the Slow Burn show page on Apple Podcasts. Or, visit slate.com/slowburnplus to get access wherever you listen. Season 10 of Slow Burn was written and reported by Josh Levin. It was executive produced by Lizzie Jacobs. Slow Burn is produced by Sophie Summergrad, Joel Meyer, and Rosie Belson with help from Patrick Fort, Jacob Fenston, and Julia Russo. Derek John is Slate’s executive producer of narrative podcasts. This season was edited by Susan Matthews and Hillary Frey. Merritt Jacob is our senior technical director. Mix and sound design by Joe Plourde. Our theme music was composed by Alexis Cuadrado. Derreck Johnson created the artwork for this season. Episode artwork by Ivylise Simones. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As Fox News gathered strength, progressive activists turned to comedian Al Franken and fledgling online communities to punch back. But could the left put up a real fight without a Fox News of its own? And what did Fox’s critics miss when they focused only on its politics? Want more from Slow Burn? Join Slate Plus to unlock full access to all seasons, including members-only bonus episodes from The Rise of Fox News. You'll also enjoy ad-free listening to all of your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now by clicking "Try Free" at the top of the Slow Burn show page on Apple Podcasts. Or, visit slate.com/slowburnplus to get access wherever you listen. Season 10 of Slow Burn was written and reported by Josh Levin. It was executive produced by Lizzie Jacobs. Slow Burn is produced by Sophie Summergrad, Joel Meyer, and Rosie Belson with help from Patrick Fort, Jacob Fenston, and Julia Russo. Derek John is Slate’s executive producer of narrative podcasts. This season was edited by Susan Matthews and Hillary Frey. Merritt Jacob is our senior technical director. Mix and sound design by Joe Plourde. Our theme music was composed by Alexis Cuadrado. Derreck Johnson created the artwork for this season. Episode artwork by Ivylise Simones. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After 9/11, the Fox News Channel rallied a huge portion of the country around the Bush administration’s vision of the world. But as the U.S. marched to war in the Middle East, journalists, liberal watchdogs, and comedians began pushing back. Could The Daily Show, Fox News’ own liberal pundits, or an employee-turned-whistleblower take Fox down a peg? Want more from Slow Burn? Join Slate Plus to unlock full access to all seasons, including members-only bonus episodes from The Rise of Fox News. You'll also enjoy ad-free listening to all of your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now by clicking "Try Free" at the top of the Slow Burn show page on Apple Podcasts. Or, visit slate.com/slowburnplus to get access wherever you listen. Season 10 of Slow Burn was written and reported by Josh Levin. It was executive produced by Lizzie Jacobs. Slow Burn is produced by Sophie Summergrad, Joel Meyer, and Rosie Belson with help from Patrick Fort, Jacob Fenston, and Julia Russo. Derek John is Slate’s executive producer of narrative podcasts. This season was edited by Susan Matthews and Hillary Frey. Merritt Jacob is our senior technical director. Mix and sound design by Joe Plourde. Our theme music was composed by Alexis Cuadrado. Derreck Johnson created the artwork for this season. Episode artwork by Ivylise Simones. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For a decade and a half, CNN was peerless and ambitious, and it understood its place in the world. At least, it thought it did—until Fox News burst onto television screens. Could CNN save itself by becoming conservative or by going tabloid? And how would CNN and Fox respond when September 11 made the news more important than ever? Want more from Slow Burn? Join Slate Plus to unlock full access to all seasons, including members-only bonus episodes from The Rise of Fox News. You'll also enjoy ad-free listening to all of your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now by clicking "Try Free" at the top of the Slow Burn show page on Apple Podcasts. Or, visit slate.com/slowburnplus to get access wherever you listen. Season 10 of Slow Burn was written and reported by Josh Levin. It was executive produced by Lizzie Jacobs. Slow Burn is produced by Sophie Summergrad, Joel Meyer, and Rosie Belson with help from Patrick Fort, Jacob Fenston, and Julia Russo. Derek John is Slate’s executive producer of narrative podcasts. This season was edited by Susan Matthews and Hillary Frey. Merritt Jacob is our senior technical director. Mix and sound design by Joe Plourde. Our theme music was composed by Alexis Cuadrado. Derreck Johnson created the artwork for this season. Episode artwork by Ivylise Simones. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Before he ran Fox News, Roger Ailes launched a very different kind of channel. America’s Talking was his vision of the future of television: a strange, slapdash, mostly apolitical cable network. When that dream got snatched away from him, Ailes went on a revenge mission—and made a connection with Rupert Murdoch. Want more from Slow Burn? Join Slate Plus to unlock full access to all seasons, including members-only bonus episodes from The Rise of Fox News. You'll also enjoy ad-free listening to all of your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now by clicking "Try Free" at the top of the Slow Burn show page on Apple Podcasts. Or, visit slate.com/slowburnplus to get access wherever you listen. Season 10 of Slow Burn was written and reported by Josh Levin. It was executive produced by Lizzie Jacobs. Slow Burn is produced by Sophie Summergrad, Joel Meyer, and Rosie Belson with help from Patrick Fort, Jacob Fenston, and Julia Russo. Derek John is Slate’s executive producer of narrative podcasts. This season was edited by Susan Matthews and Hillary Frey. Merritt Jacob is our senior technical director. Mix and sound design by Joe Plourde. Our theme music was composed by Alexis Cuadrado. Derreck Johnson created the artwork for this season. Episode artwork by Ivylise Simones. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the Fox News Channel launched in 1996, critics called it disorganized, incompetent, and laughably inept. But it wouldn’t be a joke for long. During the 2000 election, Fox News would captivate the nation – and just maybe change the fate of American democracy. Want more from Slow Burn? Join Slate Plus to unlock full access to all seasons, including members-only bonus episodes from The Rise of Fox News. You'll also enjoy ad-free listening to all of your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now by clicking "Try Free" at the top of the Slow Burn show page on Apple Podcasts. Or, visit slate.com/slowburnplus to get access wherever you listen. Season 10 of Slow Burn was written and reported by Josh Levin. It was executive produced by Lizzie Jacobs. Slow Burn is produced by Sophie Summergrad, Joel Meyer, and Rosie Belson with help from Patrick Fort, Jacob Fenston, and Julia Russo. Derek John is Slate’s executive producer of narrative podcasts. This season was edited by Susan Matthews and Hillary Frey. Merritt Jacob is our senior technical director. Mix and sound design by Joe Plourde. Our theme music was composed by Alexis Cuadrado. Derreck Johnson created the artwork for this season. Episode artwork by Ivylise Simones. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adults have a long history of trying to find morals and lessons in children’s literature. But what happens when a seemingly innocent book about a boy and a hungry mouse becomes fodder for the culture wars? Over the last decade, Laura Joffe Numeroff’s If You Give a Mouse a Cookie has been adopted by some on the right as a cautionary tale about government welfare. In this episode, we explore the origins of If You Give a Mouse a Cookie, the history of adults extracting unintended meaning from children’s books, and try to figure out how this particular kid’s book became a Republican battle cry. This episode was written by Cheyna Roth. It was edited by Katie Shepherd and Evan Chung. It was produced by Sofie Kodner. Decoder Ring is produced by Willa Paskin, Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd and Max Freedman. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. In this episode, you’ll hear from author Laura Numeroff, book critic Bruce Handy, economist Rebecca Christie and former journalist Max Ehrenfreund. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com If you haven’t please yet, subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you’re a fan of the show, we’d love for you to sign up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to listen to Decoder Ring and every other Slate podcast without any ads. You also get unlimited access to Slate’s website. Member support is crucial to our work. So please go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Slow Burn’s 10th season, host Josh Levin takes you back to a crucial inflection point in American history: the moment between 2000 and 2004 when Fox News first surged to power and a whole bunch of people rose up to try and stop it. You’ll hear from the hosts, reporters, and producers who built Fox News, many who’ve never spoken publicly. You’ll also hear from Fox’s biggest antagonists—the political operatives, journalists, and comedians who attacked it, investigated it, and tried to mock it into submission. And you’ll hear from Fox’s victims, who are still coming to terms with how a cable news channel upended their lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the late 1970s, a new and unusual concept for a restaurant chain emerged in California—video games plus bad pizza plus animatronic characters. The result was Chuck E. Cheese’s Pizza Time Theatre, an immensely popular chain with a pizza rat for a mascot. But the strangeness only starts there. Decoder Ring dives into the formation of Chuck E. Cheese’s and its rival, ShowBiz Pizza Place; the conflict between the two; and the odd personalities of the mechanical animatronics that inhabited both stores and are still beloved by a select group of adults to this very day. This podcast was written by Willa Paskin and was produced and edited by Benjamin Frisch, who also did illustrations for this episode. Cleo Levin was our research assistant. Decoder Ring is produced by Katie Shepherd, Max Freedman, and Evan Chung, with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is executive producer. Merritt Jacob is our senior technical director. If you haven’t yet, please subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you’re a fan of the show, we’d love for you to sign up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to listen to Decoder Ring and every other Slate podcast without any ads. You also get unlimited access to Slate’s website. Member support is crucial to our work. So please go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Hysteria” is an ancient word carrying thousands of years of baggage. Though the terminology has changed, hysteria has not gone away, and in its most baffling instances it can even be contagious. The idea of a mass psychogenic illness can be hard to wrap your head around. A group of people begins experiencing physical symptoms, because of something that started in one of their minds? In today’s episode Dan Taberski, the host of Hysterical, a new podcast about mass hysteria, walks us through the past and present of this phenomenon, why it’s so stigmatized, and why it shouldn’t be. This episode was written by Evan Chung and Willa Paskin and produced by Evan. We produce Decoder Ring with Katie Shepherd and Max Freedman and with help from Sofie Kodner. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Special thanks to Marialexa Kavanaugh and Alexandra Anderson. If you haven’t please yet, subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you’re a fan of the show, we’d love for you to sign up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to listen to Decoder Ring and every other Slate podcast without any ads. You also get unlimited access to Slate’s website. Member support is crucial to our work. So please go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you’re lucky, it’s possible you’ve never thought much about sitting. It’s just something your body does, like breathing or sleeping. But in the last decade or so, sitting has stepped into the spotlight, as a kind of villain. In today’s episode, Slate’s Dan Kois tells us about his radical experiment to go without sitting for an entire month. Then to understand why sitting is under attack we look back at an earlier posture panic around slouching, and explore the role of hostile architecture. This episode was written by Max Freedman and Willa Paskin and produced by Max. We produce Decoder Ring with Katie Shepherd and Evan Chung. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. You heard “Sitting” by TJ Mack, aka Brian Jordan Alvarez, as remixed by Josh Mac. You also heard from Beth Linker and Jonathan Pacheco Bell. We’d like to thank Stephen Nessen and Rob Robinson. For some of the background on hostile architecture, we are indebted to the late Mike Davis’s book, City of Quartz, and in particular Chapter 4: “Fortress L.A.” Check out Dan Kois’ New York Magazine article about his exploits, “Sitting Is Bad for You. So I Stopped. For a Whole Month.” If you haven’t please yet, subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends. If you’re a fan of the show, we’d love for you to sign up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to listen to Decoder Ring and every other Slate podcast without any ads. You also get unlimited access to Slate’s website. Member support is crucial to our work. So please go to Slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special bonus episode host Christina Cauterucci interviews Silvana Nova and Larry Hermsen. Silvana is the person you see raising a fist on this season’s cover art — and Larry is the one who made the photo in 1978. We hear about how they turned it into a poster to raise money to fight the Briggs Initiative, and how gender non-conforming gays like Silvana and Larry (aka "street queens") had their own flourishing culture in San Francisco outside the mainstream gay scene. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lawn ornaments are everywhere—but for something so ubiquitous, they’re also mysterious. What’s the person with the flamingo or the gargoyle in their yard trying to say—and why do they want to say it so publicly? From the garden-variety to the not so common, the adorable to the odious—lawn ornaments speak volumes, without saying a word. In this episode, we travel from Germany to England and back home to look at the history and meaning behind three specific lawn ornaments: the garden gnome, the lawn jockey, and the 18th century ornamental hermit. You’ll hear from historian Twigs Way, Sven Berrar of the Zwergstatt Gräfenroda, David Pilgrim of the Jim Crow Museum, Kenneth Goings who is an emeritus professor at the Ohio State University, and art historian Ned Harwood. This episode was written by Evan Chung and Willa Paskin. It was produced by Evan Chung. We produce Decoder Ring with Katie Shepherd and Max Freedman. We had additional production from Cheyna Roth and Martina Weber. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Thank you to Friedemann Brenneis, Heather Joseph-Witham, and Elise Gramza. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com. If you love the show and want to support us, consider joining Slate Plus. With Slate Plus you get ad-free podcasts, bonus episodes, and total access to all of Slate’s journalism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Listen in as host Christina Cauterucci joins special guests, Eric Marcus, host of Making Gay History, DeRay Mckesson, activist and host of Pod Save the People, filmmaker Sam Feder, and Esther Fallick, comedian, singer and musical theater writer, for an exclusive live taping at the 2024 Tribeca Festival. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For the two years leading up to May 21, 1979, gay activists followed the rules. They engaged in civil debates. They sought justice at the ballot box. They peacefully mourned the assassination of Harvey Milk. But the verdict in Dan White’s murder trial changed everything. (If you—or anyone you know—are in crisis, contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, anytime: Dial 988 or visit 988lifeline.org.) Season 9 of Slow Burn was written and produced by Christina Cauterucci. Slow Burn is produced by Sophie Summergrad, Kelly Jones, and Joel Meyer. Josh Levin is the editorial director of Slow Burn. Derek John is Slate’s executive producer of narrative podcasts. Susan Matthews is Slate’s executive editor. Merritt Jacob is our senior technical director. We had engineering help from Patrick Fort and Madeline Ducharme. Our theme music is composed by Alexis Cuadrado. Artwork by Ivylise Simones, based on an image of Silvana Nova and a poster designed by Larry Hermsen and the Too Much Graphics Collective. Join host Christina Cauterucci and special guests as they record a special, live episode of Slow Burn at the Tribeca Film Festival on June 13. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices