The Boundless Show

How singles can connect with kids, plus more with Michael Johnson on dating must-dos, and how to deal with friends who’ve gotten married. Featured musical artist: Jeremy Rosado Roundtable: Is Being Good with Kids Required for Marriage? Some singles consider themselves great with kids, while others find that children make them uncomfortable. But is being good with children a prerequisite for being a healthy spouse? We interviewed some people who love children on ways you can learn to be more comfortable around kids, and why doing so is beneficial for marriage. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Dating to Find a Spouse (Part 2) Dating should be fun, but when stakes are high (like actually looking for a mate), things can easily get complicated. How can you be sure you’re dating in a way that will lead to a godly marriage? Our friend Michael Johnson’s new book breaks it all down, helping Christian daters get clarity and intention in how to make dating count. In part two of our discussion, he’ll address ways to guard against sexual temptation, the need for good friends, and whether or not you’re ready to date. Date Like You Know What You’re Doing: Your DatePrep Guide Future Marriage University Inbox: When Your Friends Have Gotten Married How do you move forward when you feel abandoned by your friends who’ve gotten married, and you’re still single? Lisa Anderson weighs in. Guest: Lisa Anderson Article: Friends Beyond Marriage, Part 1 Article: Friends Beyond Marriage, Part 2 Link to Counseling Services Boundless Advent Devotional

Favorite Thanksgiving traditions, plus Michael Johnson on dating must-dos, and what if you strongly disagree with your siblings’ choices? Featured musical artist: Daniel Bashta Roundtable: Our Thanksgiving Traditions Thanksgiving is a favorite holiday for many (well, Americans, at least). To help you celebrate, we took a lighthearted look at some of our most treasured Turkey Day traditions. We discuss holiday food (the debate: stuffing or dressing?), favorite activities, general vibes, and how we emphasize thankfulness with our families and friends. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Dating to Find a Spouse (Part 1) Dating should be fun, but when stakes are high (like actually looking for a mate), things can easily get complicated. How can you be sure you’re dating in a way that will lead to a godly marriage? Our friend Michael Johnson’s new book breaks it all down, helping Christian daters get clarity and intention in how to make dating count. In part one of our conversation, he’ll share fun (read: both amazing and awkward) stories from his own dating experience, plus how to spot a Mr. or Ms. Wrong, and why dating can actually be fun. Date Like You Know What You’re Doing: Your DatePrep Guide Future Marriage University Inbox: When You Disagree with Your Siblings’ Choices It’s tough when your sibling makes a life choice that goes against your core convictions. When that happens, how do you respond? Is it possible to stand for truth and still love your brother or sister? Counselor Angel Perez weighs in. Link to Counseling Services Boundless Advent Devotional

When going deep with others is difficult, plus handling rough family dynamics during the holidays, and bitterness over being left out. Featured musical artist: Kerrie Roberts Roundtable: When a Relationship Feels Shallow Some friendships bring instant connection. You both have something in common and you hit it off. Soon you’re able to be real, challenging and sharpening each other. But for others, no matter how hard you try, the connection or the will to go deep just isn’t there. This can happen with family, too — or even a boyfriend or girlfriend. What do you do when it feels like a relationship lacks a heart and mind connection? That’s the question we get to the bottom of this week. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Family Doesn’t Guarantee Holiday Happiness Holiday hype promises warmth, family and nostalgia, but family gatherings can be anything but fun if you have to face that relative. If your family is less than picture perfect, how do you survive? Can you celebrate without hurt, resentment, confrontation or even an all-out war? Counselor Tim Sanford offers practical ways to manage expectations, establish boundaries and keep the peace, even around the most challenging family members. Forgive for Real: Six Steps to Forgiving Just Annoying, or Truly Unsafe? How to Navigate Get-Togethers with Difficult Family Inbox: No Room in the Apartment She was planning to move out with friends, but then they got a place without her. She found out after the fact and wants to know how to move on from feeling betrayed. Counselor Linda Miller weighs in. Link to Counseling Services

When your beliefs are challenged at work, plus Madi Prewett Troutt talks “The Bachelor,” love and singleness, and how to lean on God after a breakup. Featured musical artist: David Dunn Roundtable: When Your Workplace Challenges Your Convictions (Part 2) Managing the daily grind at work is hard enough, but it’s particularly challenging when the environment is hostile to your faith and convictions. It’s not unheard of to see Christians ridiculed, canceled, pressured or even fired for standing up for what they believe. How should this kind of workplace culture be navigated? Our guests come from fields in education, medicine, mental health and the corporate world, and have experienced ideological challenges on the job. They continue a great discussion from last week on how to stay true to your convictions in an increasingly hostile world. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Beyond “The Bachelor” With Madi Prewett Troutt In 2020, Madi Prewett Troutt became a both beloved and maligned contestant on TV’s “The Bachelor.” Her season in the public eye taught her much, especially what love is — and what it isn’t. She shares lessons learned from the show, dating in high school, marrying her husband, Grant, and most importantly — from God himself. Get Madi’s take on how to get the love you want instead of what will never last. The Love Everybody Wants: What You’re Looking For Is Already Yours Inbox: God Will Get You Through Your Breakup Breakups aren’t easy, especially when you had high expectations for the relationship. People tell you to “lean on God” to deal with the pain, but what does that look like? Counselor Glenn Lutjens weighs in.

When your beliefs are challenged at work, plus how introverts can win on the job, and balancing your priorities with your family’s needs. Featured musical artist: Nathan Tasker Roundtable: When Your Workplace Challenges Your Convictions (Part 1) Managing the daily grind at work is hard enough, but it’s particularly challenging when the environment is hostile to your faith and convictions. It’s not unheard of to see Christians ridiculed, canceled, pressured or even fired for standing up for what they believe. How should this kind of workplace culture be navigated? Our guests come from fields in education, medicine, mental health and the corporate world, and have experienced ideological challenges on the job. They spark a great discussion on how to stay true to your convictions in an increasingly hostile world. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Introverts at Work Are extroverts more successful in their careers? Listening to workplace lore, you’d assume that it’s easier for extroverts to get ahead, make friends, influence others, and be recognized on the job. Sometimes that’s true — but introverts, take heart. Introvert Dr. Mike Bechtle says that introverts have unique gifts and temperaments that can spell success on the job. Whether you’re an introvert or you want to better understand your introverted friends and coworkers, you’ll be encouraged by this discussion. The Introvert’s Guide to Success in the Workplace: Becoming Confident in a Culture of Extroverted Expectations Inbox: When Your Family Needs You You want to focus on your own projects, priorities and friendships, but your family sometimes needs your help. How should you respond when things feel out of balance? Counselor Linda Miller gives a few tips.

Finding hobbies beyond entertainment, plus the testimony of worship leader Stephen McWhirter, and when you feel burned out from loving others. Featured musical artist: Aaron Shust Roundtable: Purposeful Hobbies A new show to binge, a football score to check, and then some gaming (got to level up!). These pastimes are fun, but in an entertainment-saturated world, how can we balance our go-to media interests with hobbies that are more productive? Our guests open up about their struggles with consuming too much entertainment — and how they’re learning to stretch their minds and skills in other directions. Leave Us a Voicemail Link to Plugged In Website Culture: Stephen McWhirter’s Journey From Meth to Ministry Before Stephen McWhirter became known for the song “Come Jesus Come,” he spent a long season openly hating God. Growing up watching his dad, a pastor, abuse Stephen’s mom, Stephen wanted nothing to do with Christians. He turned to drugs, and for over a decade they consumed his life. But that’s where God met him. Hear Stephen tell how God redeemed his broken story and gave him a platform to show others the path to true freedom. The Case for Christ: A Journalist’s Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus Stephen’s Music Inbox: Burned Out From All the Takers Ever feel like you’re giving your time and energy to everyone else, but getting nothing in return? If loving others is leaving you exhausted, counselor Jerry Jones offers hope. Link to Counseling Services

Determining if you and your date align in matters of faith, plus female execs help women succeed, and pursuing a woman post-breakup. Featured musical artist: Mosaic MSC Roundtable: Are You Spiritually Compatible? You and the person you’re dating may both be Christians, but that doesn’t guarantee you’re compatible. What are your theological disagreements? Does their spiritual maturity matter? What about worship style or church experience? Our panel gives their best advice to help you determine what’s important to stay in sync spiritually with your significant other. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Helping Women Succeed in the Workforce Today’s career landscape has exploded with new opportunities for women, but that doesn’t mean success isn’t hard-won. Three female execs and business owners who’ve been there spearhead a discussion on how to be a successful working woman and leader while honoring God and achieving work-life balance. The Way We Work: Taking Charge of Your Own Success 4-Word Women Inbox: What If She Just Ended a Relationship? He’s been on a couple dates, but both women recently came out of dating relationships. He’s wondering: Should a guy pursue a woman if she just ended a relationship with someone else? Lisa Anderson weighs in. Link to Counseling Services

When you’re ignored or unwelcome at church, plus dating after trauma, and should you date someone who’s recently divorced? Featured musical artist: Danen Kane Roundtable: When People at Church Ignore You Have you ever visited a church only to have no one shake your hand or say hello? Maybe you haven’t been included in conversation, asked a question, or invited to participate. Most of us have faced some version of this. When it happens, what should you do? Walk out the door forever, snub people in return, or try something else? We talk about the awkward and disappointing effects of not feeling welcome at church, and offer suggestions for how to handle it short- and long-term. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Dating After You’ve Experienced Trauma Whether it’s childhood trauma, circumstantial trauma or trauma related specifically to a past relationship, picking yourself up and moving on is no easy task. How do you know you’re ready to date after such an experience or season? Counselors Angel Perez and Kari Aho have experienced trauma and currently counsel many clients navigating these tricky waters. They’ll define trauma, suggest first steps, identify roadblocks, and outline healthy ways to re-enter the dating scene. From Trauma to Transformation: A Path to Healing and Growth Inbox: What If He’s Been Divorced? She discovered that the guy she’s dating was recently divorced. Where does she go from here, and what does she need to know? Counselor Kari Aho weighs in, sharing how she addressed this when dating her husband. Link to Counseling Services

Ways to be a good gift giver, plus a sex Q&A with Dr. Juli Slattery, and is a second date recommended if the first one didn’t go well? Featured musical artist: Ginny Owens Roundtable: Creative Gift Giving Yes, Christmas is coming, but you don’t have to wait until the holidays to learn how to give good gifts. Even if gifts isn’t your love language, you’ll be inspired by this conversation to be more generous and creative in blessing others. Our guests share their gift-giving and -receiving experiences, what gifts have meant a lot to them and why, and how to think out of the box when considering gifts for friends, family and everyone in between. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Dr. Juli Slattery Answers Questions About Sex We asked you to submit your questions about sex and sexuality, and this week Dr. Juli Slattery is here to answer them. Offering clinical expertise, biblical wisdom and practical application, Juli answers questions including: how to talk about sex when you’re engaged to be married, how to navigate a relationship with someone who has a sexual past, sexuality and singleness, loving your LGBT friends while affirming God’s design, and more. Rethinking Sexuality: God’s Design and Why It Matters Article: What’s the Purpose of Sexuality if I’m Single Article: Promise Rings and Purity Talks Aren’t Enough Article: Is It OK to Masturbate? Inbox: Should I Try a Second Date? If a first date didn’t go well, should you give a second one a chance? How do you know if it’s worth it? Counselor Angel Perez weighs in. Link to Counseling Services

Creating a useful wedding registry, plus Peter Mutabazi’s journey from street kid to foster dad, and do most adults know if they want kids? Featured musical artist: James Peden Roundtable: Wedding Registry Advice One of the most iconic tasks of the engagement season is setting up a wedding registry. But if you hop online and haphazardly add items, or run around a store with a scanner like your life depends on it, you’ll soon second-guess if you’re doing the whole registry thing right. (You’ll also be downright exhausted.) For advice on putting together a thoughtful and practical registry, we asked several of our newlywed friends to share lessons learned, out-of-the-box ideas, and how to avoid offending gift-givers. They also discuss gifts they got that have proven especially meaningful. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: From Street Kid to Single Dad As a child in Uganda, Peter Mutabazi experienced life in a violent home. He escaped and ran hundreds of miles away to Kampala, where he lived on the streets. He survived this way for years until a young man showed him kindness; this small encounter changed everything. Now living in the United States, Peter is a foster and adoptive dad in addition to running a business and working in the nonprofit world. His story will inspire you as a reminder that God can redeem even the most broken situations. Now I Am Known: How a Street Kid Turned Foster Dad Found Acceptance and True Worth Inbox: Do You Want Kids or Not? Do most people know if they eventually want children? How much should having kids be prioritized, especially when so many young adults are delaying marriage? Counselor Geremy Keeton weighs in. Link to Counseling Services

The advice we need most, plus Steve and Candice Watters tell the Boundless origin story, and how to effectively ask a girl out. Featured musical artist: Ellie Holcomb Roundtable: Where Do You Need Advice? As we celebrate 25 years since the launch of Boundless.org, our guests tell how they first heard about Boundless. They’ll also share the ways they’ve benefited personally from Boundless content, areas in which they need advice, and how to prioritize growth as a young adult. Finally, they list some of their favorite show moments through the years. The Dating Manifesto: A Drama-Free Plan for Pursuing Marriage With Purpose Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Steve & Candice Watters Tell the Boundless Story Have you ever wondered how Boundless got started? Or where the name Boundless came from? Boundless founders Steve and Candice Watters join us for a special conversation to answer these questions and more. They’ll also share their thoughts on how the world has changed for young adults since Boundless launched in 1998. The Dating Manifesto: A Drama-Free Plan for Pursuing Marriage With Purpose Inbox: Ways to Ask a Girl Out When pursuing a girl, what are ways to be upfront about asking her out — without being creepy? Counselor Glenn Lutjens weighs in.

Stories of porn addiction recovery, plus finding belonging as a Christian, and how to know if your boyfriend is spiritually mature. Featured musical artist: Liz Vice Roundtable: Overcoming Porn Addiction (Part 2) Pornography addiction is increasingly common today, even among Christians. It’s a struggle many don’t want to admit, and freedom often feels out of reach. But our guests have broken the pornography cycle, and they join us this week to share more from the stories they began last week, including what worked (and what didn’t) and why through God’s grace, freedom from sexual sin is possible. Leave Us a Voicemail Link to Counseling Services Culture: Fitting Into the Family of God Katy McCown and her family moved six times in 10 years thanks to her husband’s NFL career. Uprooting yet again, her feelings of loneliness were acute. As an antidote, she had to aggressively pursue community at church and in smaller circles. She’ll share some of her best tips for making it work, with Scriptural applications for plugging in, welcoming others, and carrying friendships into a new season. She Belongs: Finding Your Place in the Body of Christ Inbox: Is My Boyfriend Spiritually Mature? Her boyfriend is 20 years old and she’s wondering if his maturity is “on par” for his age. She’s nervous about predicting the health of their relational future with little data. How much spiritual maturity should she expect from him right now? Counselor Jerry Jones weighs in.

Stories of porn addiction recovery, plus how God saved a marriage from pornography, and when to talk about past traumas in a dating relationship. Featured musical artist: About a Mile Roundtable: Overcoming Porn Addiction (Part 1) Pornography addiction is increasingly common today, even among Christians. It’s a struggle many don’t want to admit, and freedom often feels out of reach. But our guests have broken the pornography cycle, and they join us this week to share their stories: what worked (and what didn’t) and why through God’s grace, freedom from sexual sin is possible. Leave Us a Voicemail Link to Counseling Services Culture: When Porn Shows Up on Your Honeymoon Mark and Rosie Makinney were on their honeymoon when a terrible secret was discovered — Mark was addicted to pornography. Rosie confronted him and together they began a journey to see if Mark was serious about his sin and if their marriage could be saved. You’ll hear their incredible testimony of God’s redemption, plus Mark’s no-holds-barred account of what he had to give up to finally crush porn’s hold on him. Fight for Love: How to Take Your Marriage Back from Porn Hope Restored Inbox: When To Reveal Trauma to Your Date Everything from past sexual experiences to self-harm, abuse and other traumas can be hard to discuss when dating. If you’ve made decisions you deeply regret, when is the right time to bring them up in a relationship? Counselor Glenn Lutjens weighs in.

When you need a dating “time out,” plus Q&A with Tovares and Safa Grey, and how to respond when your gay friends ask you to affirm their choices. Featured musical artist: Jonathan Cain Roundtable: How to Pause Your Dating Life Dating can be exciting, but for certain reasons you may need to occasionally take a break. How do you know when a pause is necessary? And how long should it be? Our guests share the benefits they’ve seen in seasons of flying solo, and how to make a break work best for you. Oh, we also talk about how to not over-spiritualize non-dating or use it as an excuse for passive behavior or bitterness. Leave Us a Voicemail Culture: Q&A With Tovares and Safa Grey Our friends Tovares and Safa Grey, founders of Godly Dating 101, have returned — this time in person! They address the most common dating questions they get from followers, the biggest mistakes singles make in waiting for a spouse, and lessons they’ve learned since tying the knot. Link to Godly Dating 101 Inbox: When a Gay Friend Asks for Affirmation You have a gay friend who asks for your support of their sexual choices. Amid intense cultural pressure and the desire to love your friend, how do you respond in a God-honoring way? Gender and sexuality analyst Jeff Johnston weighs in.

When friends and family urge you to date, plus Hannah Schermerhorn on lessons she learned in singleness, and being a sympathetic listener. Featured musical artist: Love and the Outcome Roundtable: Feeling Pressured to Date Friends and family are our biggest cheerleaders, but it’s unhelpful when they keep asking, “Have you found someone yet?” If you’ve fielded that question for what seems like the thousandth time, what can you do? We share ideas for responding with grace when others pressure you to date. Leave us a Voicemail Culture: One Woman’s Singleness Journey For Hannah Schermerhorn, being single felt like admitting failure. After a broken engagement, she struggled to put the pieces of her heart together. But through that journey, she learned singleness can actually be a wonderful season with unexpected blessings. She joins us to tell her story, including an assurance that being a single adult doesn’t make you a second-class citizen. A Single Life to Live: Stop Waiting for Your Life to Begin and Thrive Where God Has You Today Inbox: How Can I Listen to a Friend’s Problem? When anyone approaches our listener with a problem, he finds himself wanting to give advice rather than listening and showing compassion. How can he beef up his listening skills? Counselor Linda Miller weighs in.

Discussing how we spent the summer, plus Covenant Eyes’ Sam Black on the church’s role in porn recovery, and how do you stop a panic attack? Featured musical artist: Audio Adrenaline Roundtable: Did You Have a Productive Summer? Now that summer is coming to a close, it’s time to take stock: What went well with this season of longer and supposedly carefree days, and what do you wish you’d done differently? Lisa and our guests started out with high hopes and open calendars, and now admit their share of both highlights and disappointments. If you wish your summer had gone differently (or you’re discouraged heading into fall), we’ll give a few ideas for redeeming the remaining days and staying hopeful for the months to come. Leave us a Voicemail Culture: Why Porn Addicts Need the Church Sam Black is director of recovery education at Covenant Eyes, a trusted ministry designed to help people in their journey out of porn addiction. Sam shares his story and provides reasons and ways the church must (and can) be a safe place of recovery for addicts. Join us for this hopeful and practical conversation about the power of vulnerable community done right. The Healing Church: What Churches Get Wrong About Pornography and How to Fix It Find the Victory App Inbox: How to Stop a Panic Attack Whenever our listener faces a stressor – whether it’s money, work or relationships – he finds himself battling a full-blown panic attack. What can he do? Counselor Tim Sanford weighs in.

Recognizing God in daily life, plus cultivating a good relationship with your parents, and what to do when you disagree with your parents’ advice. Featured musical artist: David Dunn Roundtable: Seeing God’s Hand in Everyday Life We look at big, life-changing events and say, “Only God could’ve done that!” But what about the everyday moments? What about the situations that seem entirely ordinary? Is God in those, too? This week we’re talking about the many ways we’re currently seeing God’s hand in our lives, and we’ll give you a few ideas for recognizing Him in yours as well. Leave us a Voicemail Culture: Do You Get Along With Your Parents? One of the hardest parts about becoming an adult is navigating the tricky relational shift with your parents. You want to honor and respect them, but what if they still treat you like a kid? What if you struggle to understand their lifestyle or decisions? What if they’re a bit too clingy or nosy? For Rhonda Stoppe and her son Brandon, the journey has had plenty of ups, downs, and lightbulb moments along the way. In our conversation, they offer hope for a healthy, mature and balanced parent-child relationship. In fact, they’ll even argue that parents and their adult children can (gasp!) become friends. Moms Raising Sons to Be Men: Guiding Them Toward Their Purpose and Passion Rhonda’s Website Inbox: When You Don’t Like a Parent’s Advice Your parents may mean well, but what happens when you flat-out disagree with their advice? Is this a time to take it, ignore it, or call them out? Counselor Joannie DeBrito weighs in.

Butting into a friend’s dating life, plus making church a haven for victims of abuse, and what if your best friend doesn’t like your other friends? Featured musical artist: Austin Stone Worship Roundtable: Getting Involved in Your Friend’s Dating Life Your friend is dating and you see something in the relationship that concerns you. Is it time to speak up? If so, how? How much input should you have in friends’ relationships, anyway? Our guests (one married, one engaged, one single) offer pointers on how to “meddle with grace” in situations like these. Leave us a Voicemail Culture: Is Church a Safe Place for the Abused? Dr. James Reeves felt God call him to make the church he pastored a place of healing for those who’ve been sexually abused. The impact of the church’s ministry has been felt throughout the Dallas community since its inception, and now it is leading the way for other churches to follow suit. Dr. Reeves and Focus on the Family counselor Geremy Keeton discuss why church should be the safest place for those who’ve been abused, and what it looks like to make that happen. The Fearless Series Website The Wounded Heart Link to Counseling Services Link to Articles for Help for Abusive Relationships Inbox: Best Friend vs. Other Friends Your best friend feels he or she doesn’t fit in with your other friends, and isn’t afraid to say so. Is this a problem with your bestie or with everyone else? How can you discuss this in a loving and constructive manner? Counselor Tim Sanford weighs in.

Struggling to find your dream job, plus recovery from religious trauma, and when you’re in a relationship but have a crush on someone else. Featured musical artist: Vertical Worship Roundtable: What Do You Want to Be When You Grow Up? Figuring out your career path can be intimidating, and it’s rarely a straight line of opportunities and decisions. Few of us knew for certain what we wanted to do upon graduating from college, and some of us still haven’t found our career sweet spot. What’s the answer? Is it trial and error? Taking another career assessment? Prayer and fasting? All of the above? Our roundtable guests have been there, and they infuse this week’s conversation with practical tips and encouragement for trusting God with our vocational futures. Leave us a Voicemail Culture: Hope After Spiritual Trauma Most Christians have at some point experienced a version of church hurt. In many cases, it’s been emotionally and spiritually traumatic. Whether it’s abuse, rejection, betrayal, moral failure or a massive church split, spiritual trauma is real. In the midst of it (or in the aftermath), how do you stay close to God? How do you trust His heart, and how do you find healing? Counselor Rob Jackson has years of pastoral and clinical counseling experience and has worked with many people on recovery in this sphere. If you’re struggling with pain from church wounds, this discussion may help you move forward. Walking with God through Pain and Suffering Link to Counseling Services Inbox: When You Have a Crush on Someone Else What do you do if you’re in a serious relationship but you have a crush on someone else? Counselor Kari Aho weighs in.

Maintaining hope for your future marriage, plus ways to share the gospel online, and how do you break a cursing habit? Featured musical artist: Nathan Tasker Roundtable: Why Marriage Is Worth It With all the negative messages about marriage these days, it’s easy to wonder: Can marriage really work? Isn’t it easier to remain single? While singleness is itself a great calling, for those who are meant to marry some extra encouragement may be necessary. Our guests this week provide inspiration to stay the course and believe in marriage as a good thing. As Lisa says, “God’s still in the business of making great matches.” If marriage is in your future, there is hope. Leave us a Voicemail Culture: Sharing the Gospel Online Australian evangelist Ryan Hemelaar is taking advantage of life in an increasingly digital age to share the gospel with people around the world — all from the comfort of his home. As the founder of NeedGod.net, he shares exciting stories of what God is doing in online conversations, and why technology is an increasingly effective way to spread the good news of Jesus Christ. Honest Evangelism: How to talk about Jesus even when it’s tough NeedGod.Net Inbox: How Can I Stop Cursing? Using profanity is a persistent struggle for many. Our listener admittedly has a cursing problem and wants strategies for how to stop. Counselor Jerry Jones weighs in.