Sea Change Radio

Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Azerbaijan. For three years in a row now, the United Nations has chosen to hold its flagship environmental meeting - the UN Conference of the Parties, or COP - in a country largely dependent on oil revenues for its economic well-being. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Bob Berwyn of Inside Climate News, currently in Baku, Azerbaijan covering COP29. We examine the problems associated with holding this ever-expanding event in a petro-state, discuss the logistics behind the selection, and consider the key takeaway policies from the conference. Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio, covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. Bob Berwyn (BB) | 00:22 - And there's people every day here telling me stories about their islands, where their wells are full of salt water, where they can't grow food anymore, where their shoreline communities are being flooded. And then go into these, uh, sort of glitzy reception in pavilion areas where people are backslapping each other and making deals and smiling and drinking espressos. I mean, there's hundreds of boots that everyone has its own little espresso stand. And, you know, it feels like a business convention. Narrator | 00:56 - Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Azerbaijan for three years in a row. Now the United Nations has chosen to hold its flagship environmental meeting, the UN conference of the parties or cop in a country, largely dependent on oil revenues for its economic wellbeing. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Bob Berwyn of Inside Climate News. Currently in Baku, Azerbaijan covering Cop 29. We examine the problems associated with holding this ever expanding event in a petro-state. Discuss the logistics behind the selection and consider the key takeaway policies from the conference. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:50 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Bob Berwyn from Inside Climate News. Bob, welcome back to Sea Change Radio. Bob Berwyn (BB) | 02:04 - Hello Alex, and thanks for having me back again. I appreciate it. Alex Wise (AW) | 02:08 - Well, it's always a pleasure. I wish there'd be better news as an expat based in, uh, Austria, you have a, a different perspective, a unique perspective on the American political process, and it's been a very difficult one for all of us to deal with. But we're not going to talk about that moving forward on Sea Change Radio as much as possible. It's just too depressing. So let's focus on something else depressing, which is last time we had you on, well, I don't know if it was the last time we had you on, but we did talk to you last year when you covered the Cop 28 Conference, the United Nations Climate Change Summit in Dubai this year. It's in another petro-state, not that far from it. It's in Azerbaijan. And this one might be even more depressing from what I've been reading about it. From your coverage set, the stage, if you will, for what this conference means and what the message is coming from the United Nations ho having it hosted by Azerbaijan. Bob Berwyn (BB) | 03:09 - Sure. Depressing is probably, uh, a good word. Saddening is another good word. And it is the third year in a row that the conference has been hosted in an oil dependent petro-state with, uh, authoritarian tendencies. So, uh, there were concerns going in about restrictions on civil liberties and dissidents of the government here being imprisoned. And quite some restrictions on protests. You probably recall that sub past cops, there have been fairly large, uh, demonstrations in the streets of the host cities, really with thousands of people turning out. And that's been kind of ratcheted down the last three years to the point that this year demonstrators are only allowed inside the blue zone. The so-called Blue Zone of the conference, which is for the duration of the event, is designated as United Nations territory. So the United Nations rules apply rather than the host country laws.

When it comes to energy transitions, marine vessels tend to get overlooked, even though they are some of the worst polluters of our oceans and air. The heavy duty diesel fuel used by most ships presents serious problems for the planet. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Maria Gallucci, a Senior Reporter at Canary Media, who describes efforts being made to transform boats and ships into zero emission marine fleets. We look at a project to electrify tugboats in San Diego, a cutting-edge hydrogen ferry about to launch in San Francisco, and innovations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the international cargo shipping space. Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio, covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. Maria Gallucci (MG) | 00:17 - When we think about the effect that these vessels have, yes, they are certainly contributing to climate change in a very real way. They're also directly spewing pollution into these communities as well. Narrator | 00:30 - When it comes to energy transitions, marine vessels tend to get overlooked, even though they are some of the worst polluters of our oceans and air. The heavy duty diesel fuel used by most ships presents serious problems for the planet. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Maria Gallucci, a Senior Reporter at Canary Media, who describes efforts being made to transform boats and ships into zero emission marine fleets. We look at a project to electrify tugboats in San Diego, a cutting-edge hydrogen ferry about to launch in San Francisco, and innovations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the international cargo shipping space. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:30 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Maria Gallucci. Maria is a senior reporter for Canary Media. Maria, welcome to Sea Change Radio. Maria Gallucci (MG) | 01:43 - Hi. Thanks for having me. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:45 - Why don't you first tell us about Canary Media. You just recently celebrated your third anniversary, correct? Maria Gallucci (MG) | 01:51 - Yes, we did. So, Canary Media is a nonprofit newsroom covering the clean energy transition. We are a fully independent outlet, and we focus primarily on the United States, but kind of hoping to expand globally because obviously this is an issue that affects everywhere. AW | 02:07 - When we think about energy transitions, we're often thinking about getting an electric vehicle or making a change to our electric grid. But one of the more global issues is ocean transport. And you've written a few pieces on how maritime vessels are trying to electrify. Why don't you first kind of give us an overview of some of the industry's problems that they're facing and, and what the solutions could be on the horizon? MG | 02:36 - Sure. So globally, the International Shipping Sector accounts for about 3% of greenhouse gas emissions every year. That includes cargo ships, harbor crafts, and all types of vessels that serve this massive multi-trillion dollar industry. And there are kind of many ways to go about tackling the problem of, one of which is, is developing greener fuels to go in these cargo ships. Another is electrifying, uh, especially the smaller vessels like tugboats and ferries. Still complicated and expensive to do, but, uh, we're starting to see a lot of progress on harbor craft and particular that operate close to ports close to communities. And so it's not just a solution for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but also kind of these toxic air pollutants that concentrate in communities. AW | 03:28 - So these harbor craft, let's focus on those a little bit more. It makes a lot of sense. These are kind of the low hanging fruit for transitioning to electrification, right? You can recharge them pretty frequently because they're not out to Sea for two or three days. MG | 03:43 - Exactly. Uh, ferries especially, and even tugboats, they kind of have a home base. They'll go out, they'll do the run, they'll come back,

Many of us on the Left see the fight for environmental justice as going hand-in-hand with other progressive battles, including racial justice and human rights. But, evidently, not all environmentalist efforts are rooted in the same values. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak to Abrahm Lustgarten, a reporter for ProPublica, about his recent piece chronicling an ugly, hidden side to the history of the American environmentalist movement. We learn about John Tanton, a virulent racist and eugenicist who befriended many environmental leaders, find out how he’s connected to the perpetrator of the El Paso Wal-Mart mass shooting, Patrick Crusius, and talk about how white supremacy and xenophobia have come to dominate right-wing rhetoric in this country. Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. Abrahm Lustgarten (AL) | 00:18 - We are all paying too little attention to, you know, the human impacts of climate change to the pressures of climate change and what that does to society and to politics, and to communities, not physically, not the disaster threats and things like that, but what it does to the way that we relate to each other. Narrator | 00:35 - Many of us on the Left see the fight for environmental justice as going hand-in-hand with other progressive battles, including racial justice and human rights. But, evidently, not all environmentalist efforts are rooted in the same values. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak to Abrahm Lustgarten, a reporter for ProPublica, about his recent piece chronicling an ugly, hidden side to the history of the American environmentalist movement. We learn about John Tanton, a virulent racist and eugenicist who befriended many environmental leaders, find out how he’s connected to the perpetrator of the El Paso Wal-Mart mass shooting, Patrick Crusius, and talk about how white supremacy and xenophobia have come to dominate right-wing rhetoric in this country. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:35 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Abrahm Lustgarten. He's a reporter at ProPublica. Abrahm, welcome back to Sea Change. Radio. Abrahm Lustgarten (AL) | 01:48 - Great to be here. Thanks for having me. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:50 - Been almost a decade, I think, since we've spoken, but I wanted to have you on because you wrote an excellent piece recently for ProPublica entitled “The Ghost of John Tanton - Climate Change and Anti-Immigrant Hate are colliding for Telling a Volatile Future.” A lot of our discussions about the environmental movement have focused on race, and one of the criticisms that we hear is that it's too white of a movement In many ways, John Tanton is really the poster child for that discussion. Who is he and why don't you explain how you came to discuss him as part of a, a, a larger point you're trying to make in this piece. Abrahm Lustgarten (AL) | 02:28 - Yeah, so John Tanton is a man who started most of the organizations that we now know to be hugely influential in steering and characterizing and setting the tone of our debate over immigration in the United States. But he didn't start out that way. He started out as, uh, an avid environmentalist and going back to the 1950s, 1960s, you know, he was, uh, both an early conservationist. He lived in Michigan and he started early conservation groups in Michigan. He was an early member of the Sierra Club and headed the Michigan chapter of the Sierra Club. And he, like many environmentalists of the era, was most concerned about this idea that we were overpopulating the planet, that the number of people on the planet was drawing too much on resources and making life unsustainable. And so he set out, uh, you know, a very intelligent individual and a very organized, uh, and networked individual to campaign against, uh, overpopulation, uh, and to do that in every way that he could. But that evolved over the years. And as the US reproductive rate stabilized in, in the mid 1970s,

This week on Sea Change Radio, we give you one last pre-election episode with two keen political journalists. First, a free-flowing conversation about the presidential election with John Stoehr of the Editorial Board where we discuss the state of polling, take a look at the closing days of the two candidates and evaluate the impact of the Harris campaign having a significant ground game advantage. Then, we speak to Daniel Nichanian of Bolts Magazine as he breaks down his site’s new voting guide - a useful tool to get a better grasp of the many amendments on state and local ballots across the country.

There is a large swath of politically aware Americans out there who would like to follow the exhortations of Michelle Obama and “do something,” but the prospect of knocking on people’s doors can be a little daunting. This week’s guest on Sea Change Radio, Elizabeth Chur, has fully embraced the art of political canvassing, however, and learned to have fun with it. In her new book, The Joy of Talking Politics With Strangers, Chur shares her experiences walking the pavement for policies and candidates she feels passionate about, talks about how to convert non-voters into voters and gives us plenty of valuable tips for canvassing success.

Death is a topic that most of us prefer not to think too much about. While we must all acknowledge its inevitability, on a day-to-day basis, it feels better to keep it up on a shelf in a box, out of reach from quotidian life. Then again, there are decisions to be made, and they really do need to be made in advance of those inexorable metamorphic events. This week on Sea Change Radio, we learn about the burgeoning green funeral industry from the CEO and Founder of Recompose, Katrina Spade. We look at the environmental problems associated with conventional burial and cremation, hear about the rather unusual modern history of embalming in the US, and go deep on the subject of human composting.

This week on Sea Change Radio, we take a break from worrying about the election and look beyond these shores. First, we speak to Ayoola Dominic, the CEO and Co-Founder of Koolboks - an innovative refrigeration solution for the large swaths of sub-Saharan Africa that don’t have reliable access to electricity. We get an in-depth look at the company’s technology, learn about the challenges they’re facing and discuss the relationship between Koolboks and the Clinton Global Initiative. Then, we revisit part of our 2023 conversation with author Tim Killeen who has chronicled efforts to curb deforestation in the Amazon.

This week on Sea Change Radio, more of our discussion with Democratic strategist and data analyst Tom Bonier. In this part of the conversation, we talk about the importance of a political campaign’s so-called “ground game,” look at the predictive value of early voting numbers, and examine whether Donald Trump would actually have steamrolled Joe Biden as so many were assuming. Then, we take a peek back at our 2019 interview with Doris Kearns Goodwin to learn a thing or two about leadership.

There's a lot riding on the upcoming presidential election: reproductive freedom, climate change, healthcare, Supreme Court appointments, just to name a few. But no matter what issue is at the top of your list, the decision that Americans will be making over the next six weeks will have a lasting effect for decades to come. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Democratic strategist and data analyst Tom Bonier about the presidential election. In the first half of our two-part discussion, we look beyond the polls, as Bonier explains other elements that measure voter intensity, examine the lingering impact of the 2022 Dobbs decision overturning Roe v. Wade, and dig into voter registration data in key states like Pennsylvania and Florida.

If you live in a hilly city (like I do), riding a bike for a quick errand can be an arduous proposition - at least that was true until the advent of electric assist. E-bikes now comprise a healthy 5% share of the bicycle market in the U.S. And as many new owners are discovering, e-bikes can offer a viable transportation alternative, reducing or even eliminating the need for a car. This week on Sea Change Radio we speak with e-bike executive Bill Klehm to get a snapshot of the industry, hear where he believes e-bikes are heading, and learn about his company’s unique distribution model.

As election season kicks into high gear, it can be a challenge to talk about anything else but the race between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. This week on Sea Change Radio, we succumb to that temptation as we turn to the second half of our discussion with political analyst Jared Yates Sexton. Then, we dig into the archives to hear from Lauren Kim, a born-again Christian environmentalist who volunteers for an organization called Young Evangelicals for Climate Action.

So far this election season has been pretty dramatic, with candidate switch-ups, surges in fundraising and volunteerism, and a growing list of criminal charges laid against one of the candidates for president. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak to political analyst Jared Yates Sexton about the state of the hotly contested race for the White House. We get his takeaways from the recent Democratic National Convention, look at the turnout disparity between older adults and youth voters, and discuss how to get all voters in this country more engaged in down-ballot races.

As kids, many of us read “Fahrenheit 451” by Ray Bradbury and thought, "man, this book banning and burning stuff is terrible." Apparently, though, not everyone felt the same. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak to filmmaker Arthur Bradford about his most recent documentary for MSNBC Films entitled "To Be Destroyed," which takes viewers inside efforts to ban books from a public high school in Rapid City, South Dakota. The film follows author and literacy advocate Dave Eggers, as he travels to the school district where his novel, "The Circle," was pulled from shelves along with four other titles. Bradford tells us about why this topic felt so important to him, gives us a glimpse behind the making of the film, and discusses how the documentary reveals some larger truths about right-wing crusaders in this country. Narrator| 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio, covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. Arthur Bradford (AB) | 00:21 - I asked him about this notion that teachers were indoctrinating students, and he said, I, I don't have time to indoctrinate students. And if I had that ability, I would use it to get students to turn their work in on time and to wear deodorant every day. Narrator | 00:36 - As kids, many of us read “Fahrenheit 451” by Ray Bradbury and thought, "man, this book banning and burning stuff is terrible." Apparently, though, not everyone felt the same. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak to filmmaker Arthur Bradford about his most recent documentary for MSNBC Films entitled "To Be Destroyed," which takes viewers inside efforts to ban books from a public high school in Rapid City, South Dakota. The film follows author and literacy advocate Dave Eggers, as he travels to the school district where his novel, "The Circle," was pulled from shelves along with four other titles. Bradford tells us about why this topic felt so important to him, gives us a glimpse behind the making of the film, and discusses how the documentary reveals some larger truths about right-wing crusaders in this country. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:50 - I'm joined now on Sea Change Radio by Arthur Bradford. He’s a documentary filmmaker and his latest film is “To Be Destroyed.” Arthur, welcome to Sea Change Radio. Arthur Bradford (AB) | 02:02 - Thanks, Alex. It's good to be here. Alex Wise (AW) | 02:05 - So I should tell listeners that Arthur and I are friends from high school, and I haven't seen him since his debut film. How's your news? First, tell our listeners what how's Your News was all about. I thought it was terrific. AB | 02:18 - Yeah, that was like over 20 years ago that that film came out. I had been working at a summer camp for people with disabilities and uh, I was teaching a video class there and we started doing these news programs, and one of the segments that kind of took off was having some of the campers, people with disabilities do man-on-the-street interviews. And so this movie, “How's Your News?” was a feature documentary where we took five of the more outgoing people with disabilities from the camp and we drove across the country, uh, and they would interview people all along the way. AW | 02:56 - And at the, at the screening that I saw of this, they were all in attendance as well, along with Francis Ford Coppola. It was a really cool event. And the kids, who are now adults, were very engaging and I highly recommend that film to folks. Can people rent it on Amazon still? AB | 03:14 - It's kind of hard to find, like there's also different versions of it. So after we did that, you can find it on YouTube, honestly, that's probably the best way. But we did a feature length film of it that was on HBO and then, years later, we also did, we started going to political conventions. So in 2008 we went to, um, no, 2004 we went to the political conventions. And then we did a short-lived series for MTV called How’s Your News? which is probably really hard to find,

As the dog days of summer shorten, and our vacations wind down, we dig into the Sea Change Radio archives to revisit two climate-related conversations. First, we discuss the issue of a warming planet with Andrea Thompson, a science reporter and associate editor at Scientific American. We look at how people and policymakers are trying to cope with the rising temps and examine how different parts of the globe are being affected. Then, we speak to David Messina, the CEO of Rumin8, an Australian-based startup that is hoping to transform the cattle industry. The company’s main product is a lab-grown feed additive that is designed to significantly reduce methane emissions in ruminants like cattle and sheep. We discuss the problem that Rumin8 is trying to solve and talk about the company’s business strategy and hurdles it faces.

For many of us, the holiday season presents an opportunity to spend some time thinking about people less fortunate than ourselves. This week on Sea Change Radio, we spotlight a story of hope, determination and redemption. Our guest is Christine Yoo the director and producer of the new documentary film 26.2 to Life which takes viewers into the San Quentin Prison Marathon and its 1000 Mile Club. We learn about the inspiration behind the film, discuss the challenges of long distance running behind bars, and look at what the film reveals about our prison system and the effect it has on millions. Narrator | 00:02 – This is Sea Change Radio, covering the shift to sustainability. I’m Alex Wise. Christine Yoo (CY) | 00:23 – There were a lot of people there with brothers or fathers or mothers in prison, or their kids in prison too. It’s a cycle that is self-perpetuating. Narrator | 00:38 – For many of us, the holiday season presents an opportunity to spend some time thinking about people less fortunate than ourselves. This week on Sea Change Radio, we spotlight a story of hope, determination and redemption. Our guest is Christine Yoo the director and producer of the new documentary film 26.2 to Life which takes viewers into the San Quentin Prison Marathon and 1000 Mile Club. We learn about the inspiration behind the film, discuss the challenges of long distance running behind bars, and look at what the film reveals about our prison system and the effect it has on millions. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:38 – I am joined on Sea Change Radio by my high school classmate, Christine Yu. Chris is the director and producer of the new documentary film 26.2 to Life. Christine, welcome to Sea Change Radio. Christine Yoo (CY) | 01:51 – Hey Alex, how are you? Glad to be here. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:55 – First, why don’t you give us a brief synopsis of 26.2 to Life, and then I want to dive into how you came about the project because it’s, it’s really a labor of love. It took six years, right? Christine Yoo (CY) | 02:07 – Yeah, absolutely. Six long, very long years. So 26.2 to Life takes you inside the San Quentin Prison Marathon. And it explores the transformative power of running through the lens of the prisons running club, which is called the Thousand Mile Club. And within this club that is organized by these volunteers who are elite marathon runners that go into the prison throughout the year to coach a group of incarcerated men, they train so that every November they run a 26.2 mile marathon entirely behind the prison walls, 105 laps around this prison yard. But more than running the film really explores, uh, what, what led these men to the starting line at San Quentin and highlights their rehabilitative journeys to, to define themselves, you know, to be more than their crime. Alex Wise (AW) | 03:12 – So how did you get interested in this project and how did you decide which characters you were going to follow as, as, as the story unfolded in front of you? CY | 03:24 – So, my relationship with the prison system started more than 20 years ago. Um, I had a friend who was also fellow Korean American who was wrongfully convicted, and he was sentenced to 271 years in California state prison. Um, it really impacted me a lot. Um, I knew his whole family and how devastating it was for them. And he was somebody that I felt basically could have been my brother. You know, we had like the same type of family vacations, you know, grew up very similarly. Our fathers went to the same school in Korea. Um, and so because of his incarceration, I really started to wonder, uh, what does that look like if you know you’re going to die in prison? I mean, what does that act? How do you actually carry out a life? You know, because people still need to find a way to live. So what does that really actually look like for people? Uh, and the, so I guess basically the opportunity to explore that question came to me in 2016.

Most of us have never been there but according to a quick Google search, some of the things you might see at the bottom of the ocean include sea spiders, tube worms, and something called a blob sculpin. Add to that list: heavy equipment for mining rare earth minerals like cobalt and manganese. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Daniel Kammen, an energy professor at the University of California at Berkeley, about deep-sea mining. We learn about this segment of the extraction industry, consider the environmental hazards, and examine why it’s largely unnecessary. We also take a look at the promise of growing rare minerals like perovskites in laboratories, and discuss the recent Sunnylands Climate Agreement between the U.S. and China. Narrator | 00:02 – This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I’m Alex Wise. Daniel Kammen (DK) | 00:25 – Cobalt as mined today, either in the Congo, where most, most of it comes from, or um, from the seabed, is hugely problematic and damaging. Narrator | 00:37 – Most of us have never been there but according to a quick Google search, some of the things you might see at the bottom of the ocean include sea spiders, tube worms, and something called a blob sculpin. Add to that list: heavy equipment for mining rare earth minerals like cobalt and manganese. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Daniel Kammen, an energy professor at the University of California at Berkeley, about deep-sea mining. We learn about this segment of the extraction industry, consider the environmental hazards, and examine why it’s largely unnecessary. We also take a look at the promise of growing rare minerals like perovskites in laboratories, and discuss the recent Sunnylands Climate Agreement between the U.S. and China. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:46 – I’m joined now on Sea Change Radio by Daniel Kammen. He is a Professor of Energy at UC Berkeley, and a former science envoy for President Obama. Dan, welcome back to Sea Change Radio. Daniel Kammen (DK) | 01:57 – Thanks for having me back on. I really appreciate it. Alex Wise (AW) | 02:00 – Always a pleasure. I wanted you to summarize the white paper that you presented at COP 28 in Dubai. It was entitled, “Next Generation EV Batteries Eliminate the Need for Deep-Sea Mining.” So first, what is deep-sea mining and what’s the problem that it presents? Daniel Kammen (DK) | 02:19 – So, deep-seabed mining is in my view, kind of one of the scariest crossover issues between the old energy economy and the new energy economy. And by that what I mean is that we’ve known about seabed mining for a long time. In fact, Howard Hughes was, one of the many ways he was famous was he constructed a boat, the Glomar Explorer that was ostensibly supposed to be harvesting these nodules of rare earth metals, manganese, cobalt, a variety of things from the sea floor. And they’re about the size of tennis balls or softballs. They grow very slowly, um, at low temperature and, and, and high pressure and he had this boat that was designed to go do that. But in fact, we now know decades later that the Glomar Explorer was actually a CIA front and it was a front to go and try to pull a sunken Russian submarine off the bottom of the ocean. AW | 03:15 – This was not in the white paper, but this is very interesting

For Sci-Fi buffs, a future infused with AI may evoke unsettling images of HAL from Stanley Kubrick's film, "2001: A Space Odyssey." In truth, the evolving technology of artificial intelligence may well be taking over, but not quite how the filmmakers envisioned it. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Andrew Winston, a sustainability strategist and bestselling author, about what AI means for the climate. We look at how AI can help various key sectors of the global economy become more efficient, examine the dilemma of AI's seemingly insatiable energy needs, and discuss its potential to contribute to a carbon-free future. Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. Andrew Winston | 00:17 - It is just, we don't really have time to work it through and double emissions and then come back down like, we're out of time on climate. So how do we make sure we're adding this without creating another big problem? Narrator | 00:32 - For Sci-Fi buffs, a future infused with AI may evoke unsettling images of HAL from Stanley Kubrick's film, "2001: A Space Odyssey." In truth, the evolving technology of artificial intelligence may well be taking over, but not quite how the filmmakers envisioned it. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with Andrew Winston, a sustainability strategist and bestselling author, about what AI means for the climate. We look at how AI can help various key sectors of the global economy become more efficient, examine the dilemma of AI's seemingly insatiable energy needs, and discuss its potential to contribute to a carbon-free future. Alex Wise | 01:32 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Andrew Winston. Andrew is a sustainability strategist and a bestselling author. Andrew, welcome back to Sea Change Radio. Andrew Winston | 01:42 - It's good to be here. Alex Wise | 01:44 - So you contribute regularly to MIT Sloan's Management Review. Yep. And you have a recent piece on artificial intelligence ai, and it's entitled, will AI Help or Hurt Sustainability? Yes. People either talk about AI as either the end of humanity as we know it, or this wonderful life changing technology, or they just completely tune it out and don't want to know anything about it. What does that mean? So first, why don't you explain what AI is on the most basic level, and then we can dive into the sustainability conundrum. Andrew Winston | 02:24 - Well, first it's a interesting question. What is AI? So there's a long piece in MIT technology review recently called What is AI? And it's a long article that basically comes to the conclusion of nobody really knows, and people use the phrase in many, many different ways. The way that author described it was, AI is a set of technologies that make computers do things that are thought to require intelligence when done by people. So it just means there's things happening. It seems to be thinking even though at this point it really isn't and seems to do kind of magical things, right? So the, the, the everyday interaction that we have with it, which is growing by the way, if people use, have used chat GPTs, you can, you can make it do fun things like write a poem about, you know, mid medieval times. But I use it to look at my writing and say, Hey, what's a summary of this? Or What would you title this? Or, what are five things I should think about in this topic? And it's just a really good partner, but it's clearly getting embedded into companies of all stripes in every sector, and the hype about it and what it's going to do for companies and potentially for, you know, our biggest challenges and, and the planet, the hype's really big, but it's unclear yet what's living up to the hype. And, and there's some downsides which we, which we can go into. But look, I think it's a really big deal. I think it's, it's one of those technologies, when I first started playing with it, um, I had that same feeling like when I first Google...

This week on Sea Change Radio we speak to Lisa Song of ProPublica about her recent work spotlighting efforts by the plastics industry to make its fossil fuel-based products seem benign. We examine how plastic recycling falls short in many areas, look at the problems surrounding a relatively new plastic recycling process called pyrolysis, and then discuss her trip to Ottawa, Canada where she attended a UN conference which purported to be plastic-free. Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. Lisa Song (LS) | 00:28 - The first big lesson is just that pyrolysis is very inefficient. If you start out with a hundred pounds of plastic waste that you feed into the pyrolysis process, by the end, only 15 or 20 pounds of that original trash becomes a new plastic product. Narrator | 00:50 - This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak to Lisa Song of ProPublica about her recent work, spotlighting efforts by the plastics industry to make its fossil fuel-based products seem benign. We examine how plastic recycling falls short in many areas, look at the problem surrounding a relatively new plastic recycling process called Pyrolysis, and then discuss her trip to Ottawa, Canada where she attended a UN conference, which purported to be plastic-free. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:37 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by Lisa Song. Lisa is a reporter at ProPublica. Lisa, welcome back to Sea Change Radio. Lisa Song (LS) | 01:45 - Thanks for having me. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:47 - Always a pleasure to have you on the show. You've been doing some important work in the plastic space. Recently covered a quote unquote plastic free conference up in Ottawa, Canada. And then you've written a really well researched piece called Selling a Mirage about the problems with plastic recycling. Why don't we first start with that, this new pyrolysis technology, which ExxonMobil has called the circularity of plastic. I like that. Why is plastic not as circular as ExxonMobil might want it to seem? Lisa Song (LS) | 02:24 - Yeah, so the story I wrote was about a particular form of chemical recycling and chemical recycling, or what the industry likes to call advanced recycling is this whole collection of ways to recycle hard to recycle plastic. And the most popular form of chemical recycling is called pyrolysis. And so that's what my story was about. Pyrolysis basically means you take a bunch of plastic trash and you heat it up at very high temperatures until you break all of the chemical bonds and you end up with the molecular building blocks of plastic, and then you use those to make new plastic. So the plastics industry has been marketing pyrolysis and chemical recycling for a while now, and they're really touting it as this kind of miracle cure because with pyrolysis, you can recycle things like plastic bags and a lot of food packaging and, and think of the sort of flimsy plastic that we use every day in, in packaging or, um, to, uh, as containers for, um, crackers and chips and cookies that you buy from the grocery store. Those kinds of things. You can't really recycle in your regular blue recycling bin. And pyrolysis is supposed to be the solution to that. Alex Wise (AW) | 03:47 - And it's kind of the holy grail for plastic recyclers. I can imagine. Where you wouldn't want to be as beholden to dividing up all the plastics is that one of the advantages is that on paper you would be able to take a milk jug or a plastic detergent container and then some plastic wrap, and then throw it all into a big bin and melt it down, and then voila, you've got a whole new substrate to work with. Is that the basic concept? LS | 04:18 - Yeah. So one of the ways that it's been marketed is that pyrolysis can take a bunch of the messy, dirty mixed plastic waste that you can't recycle normally, and it will turn it all into brand new pristine plastic that's so clean. You could use it as food packaging. Um,

No matter what your current stance may be on the upcoming presidential election, the past few weeks of debate debacles and failed assassination attempts have definitely demonstrated that unforeseen events can happen. We still have several months between now and November, during which time the plot may continue to twist and turn. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with John Stoehr of The Editorial Board to get his insights into the calls for Democrats to replace President Biden on the ticket. In this free-flowing conversation, we unpack the problem with what Stoehr describes as a "customer service approach" to politics, learn why he believes third parties are a scam, and question polling data that have so many undecided voters in an election between two well-known quantities. Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio, covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. John Stoehr (JS) | 00:23 - I don't know what to say to people who are like, I need to be enthusiastic. That, that, again is the customer service attitude toward politics. It's like, thrill me, get me excited, then I'll make a decision. It's like, "no." Narrator | 00:35 - No matter what your current stance may be on the upcoming presidential election, the past few weeks of debate debacle and failed assassination attempts have definitely demonstrated that unforeseen events can happen. We still have several months between now and November, during which time the plot may continue to twist and turn. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with John Stoehr of The Editorial Board to get his insights into the calls for Democrats to replace President Biden on the ticket. In this free-flowing conversation, we unpack the problem with what Stoehr describes as a customer service approach to politics, learn why he believes third parties are a scam and question polling data that have so many undecided voters in an election between two well-known quantities. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:39 - I am joined now on Sea Change Radio by John Stoehr. He is the founder and editor of The Editorial Board. John, welcome back to Sea Change Radio. John Stoehr (JS) | 01:47 - Thanks for having me back, Alex. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:49 - Really good to speak to you. I've been kind of putting this discussion off as long as possible so that it would hold up. Why don't you first summarize what your thought process has been since the debate, the evolution of your thoughts, if you can. JS | 02:05 - Well, I should guess I should start with how I experienced the, the debate pretty much like everybody else did. You know, I was, there was a lot of shock, like, whoa, where, who is this Biden? I haven't seen this Biden before. You know, I don't think that was a consequence of previously having been in denial. I pay attention to the President, um, pretty closely. And, he broke his foot. I knew that, and so that's why he shuffles a bit. He's 81. I chalked up a lot of his behavior to age and so on, and I didn't have any sense of, of, of cognitive decline. And then, you know, I saw the debate and I start, I, myself was like, maybe I'm missing something for sure. But, you know, then as somebody who believes like, well, he does have the best shot of defeating Trump, and Trump is an existential threat to democracy, you know, the stakes are very high, and if anybody's going to do it, it's going to be him. So I, I watched that North Carolina rally very closely. I was looking for reasons to think, you know, was this just a one-off? Are his excuses true? You know, his excuses were, I was sick and, and, and so on. To me, the excuses seemed like pretty valid. I understand that a lot of that's not enough for a lot of people. I think what's going on right now is that the president's priorities are to get his people in line as quickly as possible, because without his base, he's got nothing. And he's going to have to worry about undecided people as we get closer to the election. And because,

The environmental movement has made something clear: For the health of the planet, humans need to stop using so much fossil fuel. Period. Many efforts to reduce fossil fuel use focus on consumer behavior -- CAFE standards, electric vehicle subsidies, and the like are designed to lessen demand for these polluting fuels. Meanwhile, billions upon billions of dollars are being invested right now in new fossil fuel extraction projects across the globe. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with one of the environmental leaders working to stem the supply side of the equation. Today we are speaking with Tzeporah Berman of Stand.earth, and the Fossil Fuel Nonproliferation Treaty Initiative, about the work she and her colleagues are doing to keep fossil fuels in the ground. We examine the current state of pipeline projects in North America, discuss how fossil fuel companies are dealing with slimming profit margins, and look at how changing market realities are affecting the business. Narrator | 00:02 - This is Sea Change Radio covering the shift to sustainability. I'm Alex Wise. Tzeporah Berman (TB) | 00:16 - We are going to need to stop expanding fossil fuels and fossil fuel infrastructure and wind it down if we're gonna keep the earth safe, because we can argue all we want about the solutions to climate change. But the atmosphere doesn't negotiate. Narrator | 00:35 - The environmental movement has made something clear: For the health of the planet, humans need to stop using so much fossil fuel. Period. Many efforts to reduce fossil fuel use focus on consumer behavior -- CAFE standards, electric vehicle subsidies, and the like are designed to lessen demand for these polluting fuels. Meanwhile, billions upon billions of dollars are being invested right now in new fossil fuel extraction projects across the globe. This week on Sea Change Radio, we speak with one of the environmental leaders working to stem the supply side of the equation. Today we are speaking with Tzeporah Berman of Stand.earth, and the Fossil Fuel Nonproliferation Treaty Initiative, about the work she and her colleagues are doing to keep fossil fuels in the ground. We examine the current state of pipeline projects in North America, discuss how fossil fuel companies are dealing with slimming profit margins, and look at how changing market realities are affecting the business. Alex Wise (AW) | 01:55 - I'm joined now on Sea Change Radio by Tzeporah Berman. She's the chairperson of the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty. And the International program director for Stand.Earth Tzeporah. Welcome back to Sea Change Radio. Tzeporah Berman (TB) | 02:06 - Hi. Thanks for having me. Alex Wise (AW) | 02:07 - So, when we spoke to you last five years ago, you were purely working for Stand.Earth, but you, you've also expanded your role and started this fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty organization. Why don't you explain what it is and also catch us up with some of the work you've been doing at Stand.Earth, if you can. TB | 02:27 - Sure. The Fossil Fuel Treaty actually grew out of the work that I was doing at Stand.Earth. I think like many people in North America, I spent a bunch of years trying to understand, uh, how to stop, uh, new pipelines and oil drilling and fracking that is expanding in North America. And every time we stopped a pipeline, the oil industry proposed a new one somewhere else. You know, this is one of the most powerful industries on earth. And stopping one pipeline or stopping one oil or coil project, given the extent of the climate impacts of the oil and gas industry, really isn't good enough. And it felt like some terrible game of whack-a-mole. You know, we do all this work, we do all these legal challenges and work in communities to, to support communities and their opposition to these, to these big pieces of infrastructure to try and convince our governments to use the money for cleaner, safer infrastructure. And we'd often win.