Technically Legal - A Legal Technology and Innovation Podcast

This episode involves two people with very distinguished careers. Bridget M. McCormack who now heads the American Arbitration Association (AAA) and Colin Rule, the founder of ODR.com just acquired by The AAA. Bridget has served in just about every role you can in the legal industry. She started her legal career in legal aid and as a public defender handling trials and appeals. She then moved to teaching law school, first at Yale and then Michigan. After her stint as an educator, she decided she wanted to help foster even more change and won a seat on the Michigan Supreme Court where she ultimately ascended to the position of Chief Justice. Fast forward to 2023 and she took the helm of the AAA. One of Bridget’s biggest initiatives at AAA is bringing tech into the arbitration process and that is where Colin Rule comes in. He founded an online dispute resolution (ODR) company, about 15 years ago that ultimately became ODR.com which the AAA just announced it was acquiring. To say that Colin is an ODR OG is an understatement. He literally wrote the book on ODR way back in the early days of the internet. Ebay brought him on board in the early 2000s where he headed up the company’s ODR function. In this episode Bridget and Colin discuss: AAA's acquisition of odr.com: The strategic partnership between AAA and ODR.com to revolutionize dispute resolution. AI's transformative role in dispute resolution: How AAA is using AI internally and through external tools to improve efficiency and accessibility. The future of dispute resolution: A vision for a more accessible, efficient, and user-friendly system that leverages technology and data. Episode Credits Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

Dr. Heidi Gardner of the Harvard Business and Law Schools joins the podcast to talk about about latest book Smarter Collaboration and the importance of collaboration in legal teams and in all organizations generally. Smarter Collaboration is Dr. Gardner’s second book and a follow up to Smart Collaboration: How Professionals and Their Firms Succeed by Breaking Down Silos. Both books are helpful to those in law because much of Dr. Gardner’s research is based on the many years she studied collaboration in professional service firms, including many law firms. Why is collaboration across different disciplines and business units important? As Dr. Gardner explains, most importantly, it creates better client outcomes which improve revenues and profits. But collaboration doesn’t just help make clients happy and improve the bottom line, it also fosters diversity and reduces enterprise risk. Dr. Gardner has cold hard data that supports her conclusions: Back in the 1970s, 60% of US patents were awarded to individual inventors. Nowadays, that numbers has reversed. The vast majority of patents are issued to teams and the more diverse the backgrounds of those teams, the more successful their innovation. Episode Credits Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

Medex Chief Forensic Officer Brandon Epstein joins the Technically Legal Podcast to discuss the purpose built forensic tool for use in legal proceedings. The company counts legal professionals, law enforcement and journalists as its customers. Medex is used to examine digital video files to establish provenance, detect tampering and identify modifications. Users may also use Medex to identify the device type that created the video. As Brandon explains, the type of hardware used to create a digital video file leaves its own fingerprint. By examining the bits and bytes of a video file, Medex can discern whether a video file was created by, say, an iPhone, an Android based device, or even whether it was altered by posting on social media. Brandon got his start in law enforcement as a patrol officer and through that work, he became acutely aware of the importance of video evidence in helping to solve crimes. Fast forward a few years later and he met Medex’s CEO at a conference they hit it off and Brandon was asked to join Medex. Learn more about Brandon.

Litera’s Haley Altman visits the Technically Legal Podcast to discuss the company’s new software offering: Foundation Dragon–an app powered by artificial intelligence that helps legal professionals advise clients based on market insights drawn from their law firm’s existing data and prior deal points. This is a repeat appearance for Haley. She was first on the podcast in 2018 to discuss the company she had recently launched called Doxly. Founded in 2016, Doxly is a cloud based app that helps automate processes involved in closing M&A deals. In 2019, Haley sold Doxly to Litera and she too joined Litera and currently serves as a strategic advisor to the company. One of the initiatives in which Haley is heavily involved is the company's recent launch of an AI product called Foundation Dragon. Foundation Dragon is an app that connects to a law firm’s document management systems and experience software and once connected, using GenAI, it compiles information from the software and enables lawyers to enter into contract negotiations from a position of strength. For instance, using Foundation Dragon users can: Learn what contractual positions opposing counsel starts with or has agreed to in the past Provide industry standards for individual contract clauses; and Enable users to find precedents across a law firm to figure out what terms colleagues are using In addition to Foundation Dragon, Haley also shares insights for startups. Including the importance of understanding the implications of capital raises and the potential impact on future exits. Learn more about Haley and if you're interested in learning more about Foundation Dragon go here.

Attorney Chris Edgar talks about founding Filmtracts- a DIY platform indie film makers can use to create entertainment based contracts for their projects. Chris’ career path started with a clerkship for a future U.S. Supreme Court justice and then long hours as a Big Law litigator. After a few years of legal battles in and out of the courtroom, he realized that maybe his current career path wasn’t for him. That’s because the world of entertainment law and independent film production was calling him. In 2010, Chris threw out his own shingle and founded an entertainment law practice. A few years later he and a partner launched their own indie film production company. When other indie filmmakers figured out he was an attorney, he was often peppered with legal questions, but most of the time, those asking could not afford his services as an attorney. That’s when he decided to launch Filmtracts. A self serve repository of film related contracts that users can tailor to fit the needs of their project–and depending on the subscription they buy, they can also get a few hours of legal consultation from Chris.

Studies determined that at least one litigant does not have a lawyer in 75% of civil cases in the United States. The number is even higher when it comes to family law, domestic violence, housing, and small claims matters. But organizations like Oregon’s Commons Law Center are doing something about it. On this episode, Kamron Graham, the Law Center’s Executive Director, talks about the not for profit law firm’s efforts to provide affordable legal assistance to people that make too much to qualify for legal aid, but don’t make enough to hire a lawyer. The Commons Law Center helps out people facing evictions, have family law issues or need help with wills and estate planning. Kamron initially planned to pursue a career in finance but pretty quickly figured out that her empathy and concern for others probably might not jibe with a Wall Street career. After returning to Oregon after college in the Northeast, Kamron started her career working in group homes, homeless shelters and served a stint with the United Way. These experiences made clear to her that a professional degree might help her have a greater impact on people's lives and give her even more of an opportunity to use her education to help others. So, in her 30s she decided to go to law school. After law school continued her career helping the underserved, including work for Legal Aid Services of Oregon and work as a public defender. Eventually she landed at the Commons Law Center, starting as a tenant defense attorney and ascending to the role of executive director. The business model of the Commons Law Center is not free legal work, but charging a sliding scale fee based on a client's income. Currently 70% of the firm's budget comes from fees. The firm is working to become 100% self-sufficient, but in the meantime to fill the gap, the firm leverages tech to streamline their processes and keep costs down. It also relies on donors, foundations, and grants. ** Thanks to former Technically Legal Guest John Grant for making this episode happen and connecting us to Kamron. Learn more about Kamron.

Zach Posner discusses the LegalTech Fund, an investment fund he helped start that focuses on legal tech businesses and offers insight on what it takes to build a successful start up. The LegalTech Fund has a solid track record and, if you have listened to a few episodes of this podcast, you’ve probably heard from founders of companies in which the Fund has invested–including Scott Stevenson from Spellbook, Otto Hansen at Term Scout, Tom Dreyfus at Josef, and also Zach’s colleague at the Fund, Mike Suchsland. Zach brings a unique blend of experience and insight to legal technology investing. Among other things, prior to starting the LegalTech Fund, he helped build an education tech company that was ultimately acquired by McGraw Hill. The LegalTech Fund has a couple of main areas of investing interest: Companies building tech that harnesses information from contracting processes and companies that are working to make legal services available to more people. Zach also offers insight and advice for those trying to build a company–including the importance of investor updates because the most successful companies often have the highest frequency of reporting to stakeholders. He suggests that entrepreneurs should be open and honest about challenges, allowing investors to assist in problem-solving. Zach also says it is important for entrepreneurs to demonstrate their products in a quick, iterative manner. He stresses that frequent engagement with customers can provide invaluable insights guiding the product development process. He further suggests that entrepreneurs should be tenacious with their vision, but flexible in their approach to achieving it. Learn more about Zach.

This episode is a conversation with Michael Clark the VP Global Head of Digital Transformation and Futurist at MasterCard. He discusses his upcoming book "Data Revolution, The New Currency of You" and what he believes will be a new paradigm in data ownership–that we will actually own our own data and benefit from its value. He also examines what role the law and regulation should play in it. Michael and many others like him, believe that data is going to become a new currency and that to date, we have overlooked its value. Consumers have given up most of their control and access to this value because we have been too focused on what we were getting in exchange its use –i.e. The software tools we use. Michael is well suited to write a book about the value of data. He has long worked in banking and spent a lot of time in the open banking world which, among other things, is a practice that provides third-party financial service providers open access to consumer banking information through the use of application programming interfaces (APIs). For consumers to take back their data and capture its value, Michael says the focus needs to broaden from data privacy and also onto security, ethics, and bias in data usage He says it is going to also take a new way of thinking–specifically more cooperation between regulators and the tech industry to effectively manage and leverage the tech fairly. Michael also believes that the use of AI will play a big role in data management going forward because there is so much data, it will continue to grow and AI is the only way we are going to be able to understand what data tells us and harness its value.

In this episode Colin Levy shares insights from his new book, The Legal Tech Ecosystem, his journey into legal tech, and his role at contract lifecycle management company, Malbek as Head of Legal and Chief Evangelist. Conversation highlights: Colin’s journey into legal tech: Colin shares how he first got into legal tech during his time as a paralegal at a big law firm in New York, his decision to work for a year before attending law school and his choice to work in an in-house legal department after graduation. Colin's role at Malbek: As the Director of Legal and the Chief Evangelist at Malbek, Colin's day-to-day tasks vary from traditional legal work to writing blog posts, participating in webinars, attending events, and assisting with marketing and sales efforts. The Legal Tech Ecosystem: Colin talks about his new book, which serves as an accessible, non-technical introduction to the world of legal tech. The book combines Colin's experiences and learnings with anecdotes and quotes from other legal tech leaders. Skills needed in legal tech: Colin emphasizes the importance of understanding data, meeting people where they are, and having a clear understanding of why you want to learn about legal tech. He also talks about the need for openness to risk, experimentation, and discomfort. Legal tech vs. legal innovation: Colin clarifies that legal tech is not just about AI and robots, it can be more mundane but still helpful tools like billing software. The focus should be on making people's lives easier and increasing productivity and efficiency. Learn more about Colin.

Professor Tonya Evans of Penn State Dickinson Law School visits Technically Legal to talk about her book Digital Money Demystified. Professor Evans has pretty much held every job in legal from judicial clerk, to Big Law lawyer and now legal educator. She is also the host of the Tech Intersect Podcast which focuses on Web3 and how it will impact the future of work, wealth and creativity. In this episode, Professor Evans talks about her journey from risk averse crypto doubter to blockchain believer. She emphasizes the importance of lawyers staying ahead of the curve in the rapidly evolving world of technology and the need for more education and awareness around crypto and blockchain, not only in law schools but also in other professional fields.To those ends, she founded Advantage Evans Academy, a platform designed for non-technologists to understand the new digital economy. Professor Evans’ book, Digital Money Demystified, is an excellent starting point for anyone wanting to learn more about cryptocurrencies. The book explains blockchain concepts in plain language and debunks many myths about crypto. Such as: Myth: Crypto is Mainly for Criminals. Fact: Blockchain data analysis firm Chainanalysis estimates that only .24 of all crypto transactions in 2022 were for illicit purposes. Myth: Crypto is untraceable. Fact: Blockchain transactions are pseudonymous, but, if recorded on an open blockchain, such as bitcoin, they are transparent and available to anyone to view.. Myth: Crypto is terrible for the environment. Fact: Not all blockchains are energy guzzlers, especially those based on proof of stake validation and it should not be overlooked that the energy consumed by traditional financial markets is much greater. Professor Evans also explains the need for clear crypto regulation and the risk of the United States falling behind if the regulatory environment is not clarified. Learn more about Professor Evans

Despite much ballyhoo and countless articles about them, alternative fee arrangements, or AFAs, have yet to gain widespread traction and the billable hour still reigns supreme for legal billing. Enter the Leigh brothers, Scott and Digby, and their new legal tech startup, AltFee. The company’s stated goal is encouraging legal professionals to break free of hourly pricing and move to AFAs by using the app to help scope and price legal projects. The brothers point out that the traditional billable hour pricing model doesn't provide certainty for clients and that AFAs will become more important with increasing use of AI which will likely reduce billable hours. They explain how Altfee offers a solution by providing a foundation for law firms to operate on an alternative fee model. The app helps users scope, price and audit their fees. Scott and Digby also delve into the concept of 'value billing', explaining that it involves charging fees based on the value of the service provided to the client, rather than strictly on the time spent. They underline the importance of taking both task-based considerations and value-based considerations into account while pricing. Learn more about Scott and Digby. Things We Talk About in this Episode Directory of Law Firms Offering Alternative Fees Episode Credits Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

This episode is a conversation with Spellbook co-founder Scott Stevenson about intersection of technology and creativity. Spellbook is a AI contract co-pilot for transactional lawyers that plugs into Microsoft Word. Despite founding a legal technology company, Scott is not a lawyer but is computer engineer by training. As a kid Scott was into video games and in fourth grade he talked his parents into getting him a computer because he wanted to figure out how to create them. By middle school he was building websites and eventually landed an internship at Electronic Arts. Scott is also interested in electronic music and he launched his first start up, Mune, with a music professor, to create a whole new musical instrument that combined the power of digital music with an acoustic instrument. It was during his time at Mune that Scott started to think about building a legal tech company. After he got his first legal bill he figured there might be a more efficient and less expensive way to do legal work. So he and lawyer buddy founded Rally, a document automation and templating engine for law firms which later begat Spellbook, but he funny thing about Spellbook, it was originally conceived as a marketing idea to generate leads for Rally.

John Grant talks about how legal teams can adopt Agile and Kanban project management methodologies to optimize workflows, correct bottlenecks and increase client satisfaction. John is a lawyer and the founder of The Agile Attorney consultancy. As John explains, the traditional project management method is waterfall. A technique often used by technology companies, involving a sequential approach where each stage is dependent on the completion of the previous one. But John is a proponent of the newer, Agile methodology, which emerged from the software development community. It is a flexible approach where tasks are broken down into small increments with minimal planning, and processes are iterative. Agile is one of John’s favorites because he believes it is well suited for legal work. John also talks about the value of a Kanban board, a visual tool used to manage work at various stages of a process. It typically includes columns such as “To Do,” “Doing,” and “Done”. So why is he so into project management methodologies? Because despite coming from a long line of lawyers, before he went to law school, he first worked in tech.

At an early age, Feargus MacDaeid, the founder of legal tech company Definely, was diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, which is a rare eye disease that breaks down cells in the retina slowly over time causing vision loss. Until he got to college to study computer science, Feargus’ vision was decent, but at university, it began to deteriorate and eventually went blind. After college he landed a couple of tech jobs but ultimately decided to go to law school. After law school, Feargus took jobs at two Magic Circle Firms in London, Allen & Overy and Freshfields where he was working on mergers and acquisitions. Because of his visual impairment, Feargus had to develop hacks in the software he used, like custom keyboard shortcuts, to get his job done. He met his Definely co-founder, Nnamdi Emelifeonwu, at Freshfields when the two of them were working on the same deal. As Feargus explains it, his soon to be co-founder was the first colleague that actually took an interest in how Feargus accomplished his work and marveled that he was getting it done. The two figured there had to be a better way for Feargus to work on contracts, but the duo figured out pretty quickly there really wasn’t and Definely was born. Definely is a suite of tools that helps lawyers accomplish the tedious tasks relating to the drafting of contracts. As the company describes it, they create legal tech solutions to free lawyers from frustrating, repetitive tasks, so they can get back to the work that matters.

This episode is a conversation with Katherine Porter about her journey from practicing law to founding her own company, Resourceful Lawyer which is a consultancy helping legal teams implement project management techniques into their legal work. Katherine discusses her unique approach to problem-solving in the legal field, which involves design thinking and project management principles. Katherine explains the importance of lawyers understanding client needs, the process of workflow mapping, and the challenges of implementing new processes in law firms. Katherine also emphasizes that empathy and understanding the client journey is a must when designing effective legal services. In the end, she also gives some real world tips about where to begin working in project management principles into legal practice.

As we close out 2023, we are replaying some of our most listened to episodes. Not surprisingly, AI was the hot topic this year and as its acceptance grows, so to tough questions, like whether AI developers need permission to use copyrighted works and other IP before using it to train artificial intelligence? In a very popular episode, Professor Mark Lemley of Stanford explained whey he does not think so because he believes that copyrighted works used to train AI fall should under the fair use exception to copyright law. Professor Lemley is the Director of the Stanford Program in Law, Science and Technology, an author of seven books and more than 130 articles on intellectual property, antitrust and related areas of the law. He is also a co-founder of Lex Machina and most recently of Counsel to Lex Lumina, a boutique IP law firm. Professor Lemley argues that AI companies should be permitted to use copyrighted works to train AI models without first getting permission from owners because of the benefits AI will yield and the impossibility of tracking down millions of copyright owners to get permission. He also believes that it is a fair use for AI developers to use works protected by intellectual property laws to train artificial intelligence models because such a use is transformative and the more data available to the AI, the more accurate it will be.

In one of 2023's most listened to episodes, Nathan Walter, founder of Briefpoint, joins Technically Legal to explain how his company is using technology and artificial intelligence to automate routine legal drafting tasks. A good portion of lawyers’ time and those helping them is copying or re-using prior work. This is especially true in litigation and especially in discovery. Thankfully more and more apps have been developed that help automate the creation of legal documents. Historically, these programs have been form based and users populated documents by selecting choices from a menu. But with advances in generative AI maybe form based software is unneeded. That’s what Briefpoint is banking on. Briefpoint uses tech to analyze legal documents, like interrogatories and document requests, and then generates preliminary responses to give legal teams a head start on drafting. As Nathan explains, if more legal processes are automated and augmented with AI, it will bring legal fees down and free up lawyers to focus on the complicated stuff rather than cutting and pasting prior work product.

In the most listened to episode of 2023, Zach Abramowitz makes a repeat appearance on Technically Legal to talk generative AI (like OpenAI) and its impact on legal technology adoption. Zach is a keen observer of legal tech and its trends. If you want to keep tabs on up and coming tech geared for legal, Zach is a good person to follow. He started is career at a large New York law firm where he worked on mergers and acquisitions. From there he launched his own tech company called Reply All and his latest venture, Killer Whale Strategies, is a consultancy that works with law firms and legal departments to find and utilize technology to disrupt the way traditional legal work is done. Zach has always been a strong proponent of using artificial intelligence in the legal industry, but after the release of ChatGPT and the growth of other generative AI platforms, he believes it might be the catalyst that finally expedites legal tech adoption. Zach explains why he thinks generative AI could make legal services cheaper, less profitable for service providers and on a timeline that is faster than most might think.

In this episode, trial attorney, mediator and Web3 believer Mitch Jackson talks about the future of mediation, dispute resolution and the law in a Web3 world. Mitch is a long time litigator and a name partner at Orange County, California based Jackson and Wilson. He also maintains a busy mediation practice and is passionate about the positive impact new technologies can have on the practice of law. Mitch talks about how he uses AI to facilitate mediations and his use of virtual reality to engage with clients in the metaverse. He gives a glimpse of what dispute resolution could look like in the future. He thinks cases might converted into digital files that parties interact with on a blockchain and that AI could be consulted about potential resolutions.

Crypto lawyer Nelson Rosario discuses the legal, regulatory and political landscape of blockchain technology and cryptocurrency. We also get an update from TurnSignl CEO Jazz Hampton about his company’s progress since he was last on the show. Nelson started out as an intellectual property lawyer but caught the crypto bug in law school. His boutique law firm Rosario Tech Law, focuses on servicing crypto and emerging technology companies that are working to change in the way we all interact with each other and deal with privacy and power. Although IP is still a significant part of his practice, Nelson’s firm provides those companies with strategic counseling, general outside services and assistance with privacy issues. Before he went to law school he was an election official in Florida and worked to streamline voter registration rolls and how his county processed absentee ballots. Nelson discusses the potential impact blockchain technology may or may not have on elections, the political and regulatory ramifications of the recent U.S. sanctions against crypto “mixer” Tornado Cash and how blockchain technology might change certain areas of the law.