Playbook Deep Dive

This week, the rumors became reality as Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and South Carolina Senator Tim Scott announced their long-awaited presidential campaigns. The contrast between the two events foreshadowed all of the big questions for next year’s Republican primaries. Tim Scott, who is a favorite among his senate colleagues — but who is mostly unknown outside of his home state and the Washington, D.C., fundraising circuit — preached optimism and unity while sharing the stage with his mother. Ron DeSantis, on the other hand, did something a little different. He announced his campaign on Twitter Spaces with Elon Musk. But for many, the event’s glitchy start was more memorable than DeSantis’s stern message to fellow Republicans. It was the perfect setup for the choice Republicans will have to make in Iowa, New Hampshire, and beyond: Do they want a president who follows in Ronald Reagan’s footsteps – one who is optimistic and driven by ideas – who shakes hands and kisses babies? Or do they want someone like Trump: a leader who uses the Internet to press the attack on the cultural issues that have divided the country. Now, Scott and DeSantis join a crowded GOP field that includes former governors Nikki Haley and Asa Hutchinson; entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy; and of course, the dominant frontrunner, Donald Trump. This week on Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks about Scott, DeSantis, and all things 2024 with Jonathan Martin, POLITICO’s Politics Bureau Chief; and co-author of the best-seller, This Will Not Pass: Trump, Biden, and the Battle for America’s Future. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

In the last year, a lot has changed in Washington for progressives like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.). In 2021 and 2022, with Democrats controlling the House, she and her allies could block any piece of legislation if they held together. Their big fights were with moderate Democrats over how many trillions of dollars to spend on President Joe Biden’s agenda. And they had easy access to the White House with Ron Klain as Biden’s chief of staff. Now they are in the minority and far from the negotiating room where Joe Biden is trying to make a budget deal with Kevin McCarthy to get him to raise the debt ceiling. Their main fight is trying to stop the president from caving to McCarthy on what they view as draconian budget cuts and policies that would weaken the social safety net. And over at the White House, it’s not really clear who they should call anymore. AOC is keenly aware of these changed circumstances. She’s been carefully watching the debt limit debate play out and she has a clear view of what it’s all about: power, not policy. In this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Rep. Ocasio-Cortez tells host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza how House progressives can flex their muscles right now; and how she’s learned to use her unique influence to affect legislation, even when she’s not at the table. Finally, she has some advice – and a warning – for Joe Biden as we approach the endgame of the debt limit. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the representative for New York's 14th district. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

This week, after years of criticism from immigration rights activists and many progressive Democrats, President Joe Biden has ended the use of Title 42. That’s the public health law that Donald Trump first used during the pandemic to expel millions of asylum seekers arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border. Biden’s decision has drawn predictable outrage from Republicans. But perhaps more worrisome to the president is the growing list of critics from within the Democratic Party who are concerned that Biden’s border policies could trigger a humanitarian crisis and perhaps an electoral backlash. Rep. Henry Cuellar is one of those Democrats. And he’s this week’s guest on Playbook Deep Dive. Cuellar knows the issue of immigration better than most of his fellow Democrats. He was born to immigrant farm workers in Laredo, Texas, went to college and law school, and eventually jumped into Texas politics, and then the U.S. Congress, where he’s served since 2005 representing Texas’s 28th Congressional District, which stretches from San Antonio to Laredo and includes 200 miles of the southern border. The left does not like him. He received a lot of attention in the last two election cycles when he was targeted by national progressives and barely survived two primary challenges. One reason for those challenges: immigration, where Cuellar is well-known for being to the right of many of his Democratic colleagues. On the other hand, he voted against the border security bill that House Republicans put on the floor this week. Cuellar is a lonely centrist on an issue that has become much more polarized over the last decade. And, as he tells Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza, he thinks Joe Biden should join him in the middle and stop taking advice from the left, as the president prepares for the coming aftershocks of his Title 42 decision. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Henry Cuellar is the representative for Texas's 28th district. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

If you talk to Democratic strategists about the 2024 presidential election, there is a certain type of Republican nominee who they fear: Someone who knows how to speak in the language of inclusion; who can discuss abortion and guns without alienating suburban voters; who stands up to the GOP on some of the most fraught issues of the culture wars; who can argue that he or she has almost as much government experience as Joe Biden himself, but is still younger; who handled the pandemic in their state in a way that avoided some of the most unpopular decisions of both Democrats and Republicans; and who spends a lot of their time explaining to Republicans why they should leave Donald Trump in the past. Asa Hutchinson — who sounds an awful lot like that imaginary candidate that Democrats fear — is here on Playbook Deep Dive this week to tell us why you shouldn’t count him out. Hutchinson got his start in politics as a U.S. attorney during the Reagan Revolution, when his home state of Arkansas was still run by Democrats. He served two terms as governor and shortly after stepping down this year, he announced he’s running for president. If there’s one thing that makes him stand out so far, it’s that he’s willing to say things about Trump that other Republicans aren’t. Hutchinson recently wrote that the former President “has led us astray,” “undermined the fabric of our democracy,” and is emblematic of bad leaders who are, “focused only on themselves or on settling scores with political opponents.” In this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host Ryan Lizza speaks with the former Arkansas governor after his first official trip to Iowa. He opens up about why he’s running, how he thinks he can take down Trump, and why his record – which is among the most conservative in America – is full of surprises. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Asa Hutchinson is the former governor of Arkansas and a GOP presidential candidate. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

This past week, luminaries from politics, media, and Hollywood came together for the annual White House Correspondents' dinner in Washington. Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza joined forces with Major Garrett, CBS News’s Washington correspondent and host of the popular podcast, The Takeout, at the POLITICO-CBS News reception to bring you this very special live show. The show features guests such as Senator Mark Warner (D-Va.); Asa Hutchinson, the GOP presidential candidate and former Arkansas governor; comedian Roy Wood, Jr., who provided the entertainment at the dinner; and many other big names in the world of politics and media. This originally aired live on SiriusXM, but it’s just so good that we had to put it out here for all of you to enjoy. Follow The Takeout with Major Garrett wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Visit the The Takeout’s page here: https://link.chtbl.com/CBSNewsTheTakeout

This week in Washington – more so than anytime in Joe Biden’s presidency – the news has been all about… the news. To start, it’s the weekend of the White House Correspondents Association Dinner. But outside of the brunches and parties, a different type of media intrigue has been dominating politics. BuzzFeed News, the colossus of yesteryear’s viral reporting and the entity that published the infamous Steele Dossier about Donald Trump, announced that it was shutting down for good. On Monday, Fox News fired Tucker Carlson, their top-rated host. Within an hour, Don Lemon announced he was parting ways with CNN, where he had worked for 17 years. On Thursday, Vice News, another struggling pioneer of 21st century digital news, became the latest media company to lay off some of its best known reporters. These are all isolated events with circumstances specific to each newsroom. But in an excellent new book called Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral, Ben Smith argues that we are indeed at the end of an era in media, but that the next one might be something to look forward to. That’s a forceful prediction coming from Ben, who was a longtime reporter at POLITICO, the top editor at BuzzFeed News, a New York Times media columnist, and now is the editor-in-chief of Semafor. He’s also this week’s Playbook Deep Dive guest. Ben’s book and this interview with Deep Dive Host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza do their best to answer the questions we all have about why our political culture is so fragmented, and whether there is any hope that we can return to a place where Americans agree on simple things — like facts. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Ben Smith is the editor-in-chief of Semafor. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

On May 1, the hotly-anticipated HBO series White House Plumbers will premiere. The 5-episode series takes viewers along on a darkly funny ride with the fumbling ex-spooks and misguided “patriots.” E. Howard Hunt, played by Woody Harrelson and G. Gordon Liddy, played by Justin Theroux. The duo — along with some helpers — use any means necessary to secure the 1972 re-election of Richard Nixon, including breaking into the Democratic National Committee's headquarters at the Watergate Office Building. Of course instead of saving Nixon, Liddy and Hunt end up destroying his presidency. The show is a warped version of a buddy comedy that explores one of the most relevant issues in politics: what happens when true believers lose their integrity and moral compass in pursuit of their cause. David Mandel, the director of White House Plumbers, is a man who knows more about the intersection of Hollywood and Washington than just about anyone. Mandel has had a storied career as a comedy writer and producer. He’s a veteran of Saturday Night Live, Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm. He went on to lead production of Veep — one of the funniest and most accurate shows ever made about Washington — for its final three seasons. On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with Mandel about lessons he’s learned translating Washington for Hollywood, first with Veep and now with White House Plumbers — and how a certain president elected in between these two shows changed everything about what makes politics funny. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. David Mandel is the director of White House Plumbers. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

This week, Florida’s statehouse cleared the way for Gov. Ron DeSantis to sign a six-week abortion ban. The man who shepherded the bill, House Speaker Paul Renner, joins Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza for this episode of Playbook Deep Dive. You might not know Renner’s name – but you definitely know his work: - A bill to ban surgeries and prescription treatments for transgender minors, which has passed the state Senate and Renner will soon push through the House - One of the most comprehensive new school voucher laws in the country - Legislation removing books with sexual content from Florida public schools - A major tort reform bill, big tax cuts - And if he gets around to it this session: a bill aimed at over-turning the 1964 New York Times v. Sullivan decision, the most important First Amendment ruling of the last century All of this is aimed at Renner’s other project: helping Gov. Ron DeSantis build a record of accomplishments in Florida on which he can base his presidential campaign. While Republicans have created a legislative assembly line that is spitting out laws to change seemingly every aspect of life in Florida, a big question suddenly hangs over their project: Are they building a record of accomplishments that can launch the DeSantis rocket to the White House? Or are they weighing down the governor with so much right-wing baggage that he crashes upon liftoff? Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Paul Renner is the speaker of the Florida House of Representatives. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

The 2024 Republican presidential primary is off to a bit of a slow start. Donald Trump and former governors Nikki Haley and Asa Hutchinson have entered the race, but other likely candidates, such as Ron DeSantis and Mike Pence, are still sitting on the sidelines. Almost every Republican senator who flirted with the idea seems likely to pass, with the notable exception of Tim Scott, who’s been making stops in Iowa and New Hampshire. Into this vacuum has come Vivek Ramaswamy, who stated his intentions in a Wall Street Journal op-ed. He declared that he was running to forge “an inspiring national identity that dilutes the woke agenda to irrelevance.” In a subsequent interview with POLITICO’s Daniel Lippman, Vivek added that, “The GOP has a historic opportunity to answer the question of what it means to be an American.” You probably don’t know much about Vivek Ramaswamy – he’s a young entrepreneur from Ohio who’s never run for anything. But there are a few reasons to keep an eye on him: 1. He says he’s willing to spend millions of dollars of an estimated half-billion dollar fortune on the race 2. He’s a regular presence on the Fox News Channel, which is the top information source for Republican primary voters 3. And he seems to be putting together a serious campaign made up of political pros Vivek swears he has a plan to break out of the single digits and take down Donald Trump. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza joins Vivek at the restaurant Art & Soul to learn whether he is completely delusional — or whether he just might be onto something. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Vivek Ramaswamy is a biotech entrepreneur and Republican presidential contender. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

Playbook Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza gathers three of the best journalists in the POLITICO’s newsroom to break down the immediate questions of what Trump's indictment means. Joining him is Jonathan Martin, POLITICO’s Politics Bureau Chief; Meridith McGraw, who covers Trump for POLITICO; and Erica Orden, who is new to POLITICO and is one of the best legal reporters out there. All three have been breaking news on this story – and they’re on deadline. These are their thoughts about what has led to this moment and what will occur because of it. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Erica Orden is a legal reporter for POLITICO. Meridith McGraw is a national political correspondent for POLITICO. Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

Lanny Davis long ago established himself as the go-to operative in Washington when you’re in the middle of a PR crisis. He was famously the public face defending Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal in 1998. But today, 25 years later, he’s on the other side of a presidential sex scandal representing Michael Cohen, Trump’s longtime lawyer and self-described “fixer,” who went to jail for a number of offenses, including his role in paying Stormy Daniels $130,000 in exchange for her not telling the media her account of an alleged affair with Donald Trump. Cohen is now a central witness in the Manhattan DA’s case against Trump, one that could send the former president to jail. It’s a case that has died and been resurrected so many times that prosecutors have nicknamed it the “zombie” case. And a major obstacle that prosecutors face is whether or not jurors will believe that Cohen, who lied for Trump for over a decade, is telling the truth. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza catches up with Davis at his office in Washington, D.C., to hear the story of how the Trump “zombie” case came back from the dead and why he insists jurors should believe his client. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Lanny Davis is the lawyer and spokesperson for former Trump fixer Michael Cohen. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

On Thursday, the Senate began to re-evaluate one of the most controversial episodes in American history: the Iraq war. After a generation of use and abuse, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is calling a vote to repeal the Iraq AUMF, or authorization for the use of military force, which has been a key underpinning for America’s so-called “forever wars” in the Middle East. But Stephen Hadley, the man who was the architect of many of the national security policies that the Iraq AUMF enabled, has something to say before Congress votes. Hadley was President George W. Bush’s national security advisor from 2005 to 2009 and was Dick Cheney’s guy at the negotiating table with Russia during the George H.W. Bush administration. Now, he has just published a book called Hand-Off: The Foreign Policy George W. Bush Passed to Barack Obama that chronicles 20 years of war and politics in America. On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza speaks with the former Bush adviser about what we stand to lose if Congress is sloppy about repealing the Iraq war AUMF, what Bush got right and wrong on China, how Joe Biden’s foreign policy echoes Bush’s Freedom Agenda, and how President Biden can learn from Bush’s successes and failures dealing with Vladimir Putin. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Stephen Hadley is the former National Security Advisor for President George W. Bush. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

Last November, when the artificial intelligence platform ChatGPT launched, an old science fiction question suddenly became very real: How long until the machines are smarter than the humans? It marked the beginning of a new era in technology – one that has enormous implications for the economy and the nation’s politics. On the Hill, members of Congress suddenly needed answers about the coming disruption. The expert they turned to for those was a video game developer from Southern California, Rep. Jay Obernolte (R-Calif.). Obernolte is, according to his peers, the guy you need to know on AI. He has a masters in the field and owns a very successful video game company. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, he tells Playbook’s Ryan Lizza the truth about this powerful new technology and what it means to Washington, D.C.; from AI’s regulatory forecast to what – if anything – Congress can do to soften a potential white collar job apocalypse that its widespread adoption might bring. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Rep. Jay Obernolte is the congressman for California's 23rd district. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

The war in Ukraine is just over one year old. There is widespread talk of a major spring offensive from both sides. War in Europe, once unthinkable, is now the new normal. But for one nation on Russia’s northern border, this feels like deja vu. Like Ukraine, Finland knows what it’s like to share a long border with Russia. The Finns have had Vladimir Putin as a neighbor, and they’ve been performing the same delicate dance of decoupling under his very watchful eye. Before his posting to Washington, Mikko Hautala was Finland’s ambassador to Russia, where he met Vladimir Putin more times than he can count. Hautala occupied his post in Moscow during the critical years following Putin’s first invasion of Ukraine. Since the war began, he’s become well known as the person to talk to to understand Putin, Russia and the conflict in Ukraine. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host Ryan Lizza talks with Hautala about what Americans don’t understand about the Russian leader, the implications of the growing alliance between China and Russia, Finland’s accession to NATO, and why he believes the West needs to massively ramp up its industrial capability if it wants Ukraine to survive. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Mikko Hautala is Finland's ambassador to the U.S. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

Until last month, Anthony Coley was Director of Public Affairs at the Justice Department and a Senior Adviser to Attorney General Merrick Garland. Coley was in the middle of some of the most extraordinary episodes at DOJ over the last two years: The appointment of two special counsels investigating one current and one former president. Responding to the drama around the investigation of the president’s son. Taking incoming from right-wing pundits saying Garland was protecting President Biden and left-wing pundits saying the attorney general was protecting former president Trump. And occasionally grappling with perhaps the most difficult dilemma that any government official faces: what do you do when you disagree with the boss? In his first interview since leaving Merrick Garland’s side, Coley joins Playbook Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza from his home on Capitol Hill to discuss how the Justice Department separates law from politics, why two special counsels might just take the pressure off Garland, and much, much more. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Anthony Coley is the former director of public affairs at the Department of Justice Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

Nikki Haley, the former governor of South Carolina, and President Donald Trump’s ambassador to the United Nations, is running for president. But not everyone on the right is impressed. In a brutal Valentine’s Day editorial, The Wall Street Journal said that there is “no clear rationale for her candidacy.” Over at The New York Times, the paper assembled 10 pundits to assess Haley’s candidacy, and the majority opinion was that she shouldn’t be taken very seriously. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Rob Godfrey, a senior aide and spokesman for Haley when she was governor, and a longtime ally to her successor, Henry McMaster, shares why the critics may be wrong. Godfrey discusses Haley’s career of defying expectations, her record as governor, South Carolina’s uniquely influential role in American politics, and invites host Ryan Lizza to come visit. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Rob Godfrey is the former senior aide to Nikki Haley. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

In Washington, there is now a bipartisan consensus around being tough on China. This was happening even before the Chinese sent a spy balloon drifting across the United States. Last month, by a vote of 365-65, the House created a new “Select Committee on Strategic Competition between the United States and the Chinese Communist Party.” And with China hawks now dominating the thinking of both parties when it comes to Sino-U.S. relations, Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza decided to check in with Max Baucus, who is one of the leading voices warning that the hawks have things dangerously wrong. Baucus was the U.S. ambassador to China from 2014 to 2017. Before that he was, depending on the year, the chairman or ranking member of the very powerful Senate Finance Committee. And in this fascinating interview, he’s surprisingly critical of Republicans and Democrats alike for muddling the U.S. relationship with China in order to score political points at home. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Max Baucus is the former U.S. Ambassador to China. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

A small group of longtime Kevin McCarthy aides who decamped downtown to lobby are suddenly some of the most influential and sought-after people in Washington. They remain intensely loyal to the new speaker and serve as crucial sources of insight into his thinking and strategy. Ben Howard, now at the Duberstein Group, was McCarthy’s floor director. He was with him through all of the fraught moments of the John Boehner era, including in 2015 when Boehner retired and McCarthy lost out on securing his job. Howard saw up close how driven McCarthy was to get a second shot at becoming speaker. “I used to sit in the office with Kevin,” Howard told Ryan Lizza, host of Playbook Deep Dive. “We would dream about this day. We would dream about it.” But Howard has a bone to pick. He doesn’t like the way that everyone is talking about his old boss. The conventional wisdom about the new speaker is that he gave up everything to secure the job and that he’s one misstep away from losing it if he angers his restive Freedom Caucus colleagues. According to Howard, that bit of Washington C.W. is wrong. For this week’s episode of the Playbook Deep Dive podcast, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talked to Howard in his Penn Quarter office to understand the view from McCarthy world. They had a wide-ranging conversation about the state of the House GOP, the impact of the rules changes McCarthy agreed to in order to win the gavel, the debt limit faceoff, and McCarthy’s relationship with President Biden. Oh, and also about that time Howard was chewed out by GOP members for ruining the most famous episode of Game of Thrones. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Ben Howard is a Partner for the Duberstein Group. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

After losing both chambers of Congress during Trump’s presidency and after waging a disappointing campaign to recapture them in 2022, the Republican Party is having a lot of intra-party feuds. This week, the post-election search for new leadership moved to the Republican National Committee. Right now, there’s no agreed-upon leader of the party, so like the recent battles in the Senate and the House, the RNC election has turned into a fight to define the GOP’s future. And once again, Donald Trump is at the center of the debate. Playbook co-author Rachael Bade flew to Orange County, California, to watch the fireworks at the RNC’s winter meeting, where the three-time incumbent chair Ronna McDaniel faced a challenge from conservative lawyer Harmeet Dhillon. To understand what this fight is all about, Rachael had breakfast with Bill Palatucci, a longtime party member who is also a close ally of Chris Christie’s and a loud critic of Donald Trump. In this week’s episode, Palatucci explains how the Dhillon-McDaniel contest isn’t just about the RNC chairmanship – it's about who will lead the Republican Party into 2024 — and beyond — and why the GOP could languish for a very long time depending on the outcome. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Bill Palatucci is an RNC national committee man for New Jersey. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.

What do you do when you are one of the guardians of your state’s most precious political and cultural institution — the very thing that defines New Hampshire — and the president you love and the party you’ve served your whole life, tells you to destroy it? To find out, we spoke to Ray Buckley. Buckley has served as the chairman of the New Hampshire Democratic Party since 2007 and he was involved in every New Hampshire presidential primary campaign since he was an organizer for Jimmy Carter. A big part of his job is protecting the status of the New Hampshire primary, which by state law is required to be the first in the nation. Any Democrat who wants to be president makes a point of becoming Ray Buckley’s friend. When Buckley got a call in December from Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, the worst part was that it was Joe Biden who had screwed him. Biden had decided to end New Hampshire’s decades-long reign by hosting the first presidential primary — at least for the Democrats. In its place: South Carolina, the state that resurrected Biden’s candidacy in 2020. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza speaks to Buckley about New Hampshire’s fight to preserve their first-in-the-nation primary. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Ray Buckley is the chair of the New Hampshire Democratic Party. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio. Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio.