Top of Mind with Julie Rose-logo

Top of Mind with Julie Rose

World News

Tackling tough topics in a way that will help you feel more empathy and empower you to become a better citizen, kinder neighbor, and more effective advocate. For people who are turned off by the divisive nature of the news, but still want to engage with important issues. Hosted by journalist Julie Rose, Top of Mind is a production of BYUradio.

Location:

Provo, UT

Genres:

World News

Description:

Tackling tough topics in a way that will help you feel more empathy and empower you to become a better citizen, kinder neighbor, and more effective advocate. For people who are turned off by the divisive nature of the news, but still want to engage with important issues. Hosted by journalist Julie Rose, Top of Mind is a production of BYUradio.

Language:

English


Episodes

An Explosion of Union Activity in the US and What it Means

2/26/2024
The US is experiencing an unusual spike in union activity. Younger workers are organizing in workplaces that have not traditionally been unionized. Established unions are staging historic strikes and securing significant concessions from employers – including items beyond the traditional scope of labor negotiations. Public support for unions is at its highest level in nearly 60 years. So, organized labor is having a moment. Why? And what might it mean for the future of labor in America? In this podcast episode, we look at the role of income inequality, inflation, the pandemic and GenZ attitudes toward labor to explain this unique moment in union activity. We talk with labor organizers at Starbucks and Stanford to understand why young people are turning to unions to meet their needs. And we speak with a veteran labor leader and contract negotiator about how established unions are adapting to new kinds of demands from workers in this moment. We also consider the opportunity this moment offers for employees and employers in the US to embrace a more collaborative approach to work in America. One option we explore in-detail is the historic labor management partnership between Kaiser Permanente and its employee unions. Podcast Guests: Thomas Kochan, professor emeritus at the MIT Sloan School of Management and the Institute for Work and Employment Research. Amanda Rivera, Starbucks shift supervisor and labor organizer for Starbucks Workers United. Thom Chaffee, fourth year Ph.D. worker and bargaining committee representative for the Stanford Graduate Workers Union. Gaylan Prescott, director of District 12 for the United Steelworkers

Duration:00:53:57

Finding Empathy in the Abortion Debate with listener Heidi Thorpe

2/19/2024
Our “Stick With It” series on the Top of Mind podcast continues with a story from one of our listeners, Heidi Thorpe. In 2022, she set out to better understand views that differ from her own on abortion and began reading the stories of women who’d chosen to end a pregnancy. Those stories took on new meaning when Thorpe found herself unintentionally pregnant and overwhelmed at the prospect of a fourth child. Finding empathy with those women was uncomfortable for Thorpe, but also led to a profound shift in how she thinks about the issue of abortion and what communities can do to support women facing unexpected – or unwanted – pregnancies. The Top of Mind podcast would love to hear your Stick With It story. Can you think of a time when you felt your perspective or worldview challenged and, instead of getting defensive, you chose to lean into the discomfort – and you’re glad you did? Email your story to topofmind@byu.edu. Podcast Guest: Heidi Thorpe is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a 3practices circle leader, and a Birthing From Within mentor.

Duration:00:24:06

Is Government Transparency Essential in a Democracy?

2/12/2024
Government transparency is a basic tenet of American democracy. But the US Constitution was drafted in total secrecy and the founders believed they couldn’t have done the job otherwise. When is openness best in a democracy, and when does the cost outweigh the benefit? In this podcast episode we hear the case for more openness from a citizen who used public records law to hold a state university accountable. A political historian explains how the founding fathers justified drafting the Constitution in secret and how that shaped the form of democracy the US has today. We also speak with elected legislators from three different states grappling with the best way to balance the financial and logistical challenges of making government records open to the public. The lawmakers also differ in how much of their own email and text communication should be open to the public. A political scientist who’s studied transparency in democracy describes how openness can empower special interest groups and make political gridlock worse. We discuss systemic solutions that could make government transparency work better for all Americans. Podcast Guests: Anne Mabry, citizen activist and retired professor of English at New Jersey City University Katlyn Carter, professor of history at Notre Dame, author of “Democracy in Darkness: Secrecy and Transparency in the Age of Revolutions” Washington State Representative Peter Abbarno Arizona State Senator John Kavanagh Arkansas Senate President Pro Tem Bart Hester Bruce Cain, professor of political science at Stanford University, author of “Democracy More or Less: America’s Political Reform Quandary”

Duration:00:54:04

How American Boys and Men Are Falling Behind – and What We Can Do to Help Them

2/5/2024
In the US, women and girls now outperform men and boys at every level of education. Boys are less likely to graduate from high school, enroll in college or finish college. Men are more likely to die by suicide, and they aren't participating in the labor market as much as they used to either. In the last forty years, American society has made concerted efforts to boost opportunities for women and girls. That job is not finished, so when we talk about gender inequality in America, it makes sense that the conversations tend to be about women. But American boys and men are falling behind. Have we accidentally overlooked their struggles? Today on Top of Mind, we're looking at a few of the issues facing modern men and boys, and how to help them. We talk to a program director working with boys of color in Baltimore, an economist who’s studied what it means for boys to be raised in single parent households at a record rate, an academic who’s been following these trends for years, and the founder of a nonprofit with an unusual approach to supporting men in their mental health struggles. Podcast Guests: Cameron Miles, founder and director of Mentoring Male Teens in the Hood in Baltimore Melissa Kearney, professor of economics at the University of Maryland and author of The Two-Parent Privilege: How the Decline in Marriage has Increased Inequality and Lowered Social Mobility, and What We Can Do About It Richard Reeves, president of the American Institute for Boys and Men and author of Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male is Struggling, Why it Matters, and What to Do About It Mark Meier, executive director of The Face It Foundation in Minneapolis

Duration:00:54:04

Many Students Lack Motivation to Learn. What Can We do?

1/29/2024
America’s students are struggling. Chronic absenteeism has doubled from pre-pandemic numbers. Districts are implementing grading floors to soften the sting of failure. Grade inflation is widespread. Many students seem to have lost the motivation to learn, and traditional systems of grading and ranking aren’t helping. What’s wrong with the A-F grading system? Should school just do away with grades entirely? What interventions work to get kids back in classrooms more consistently? In this podcast episode, a high school teacher shares how she changed grading in her classroom to better engage her students and an historian explains why grades are a “can’t live with ‘em can’t live without ‘em” conundrum. We also speak with a coach who works with students that struggle with motivation because they lack executive function skills and a leading expert on chronic absenteeism explains why so many kids are missing school these days and what we can do about it. Guests: Sarah Schopfer, 11th and 12th grade English teacher, Colfax High School Jack Schneider, professor of education and director of the Center for Education Policy at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, co-author of “Off the Mark: How Grades, Ratings and Rankings Undermine Learning But Don’t Have To” Seth Perler, executive function, ADHD, and 2e coach Hedy Chang, founder and executive director of Attendance Works

Duration:00:54:04

Understanding Political News Bias with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle

1/22/2024
Our “Stick With It” series on the Top of Mind podcast continues with journalist Isaac Saul, founder of the daily political newsletter Tangle. He talks about why it’s so hard to find unbiased political news and what news consumers can do about it. He also shares a “Stick With It” story about moderating a conversation between two guests with opposing views on the Israel/Hamas conflict that got so heated one of the guests demanded Tangle not release the interview. What happened next strengthened Saul’s belief in the power of tough conversations. Tangle, started by Saul in 2019 to tackle political news bias, covers one big news story every day, with a summary of the facts and a collection of perspectives from across the political spectrum. Saul was inspired to create it after growing frustrated by the pressure media outlets face to adopt an ideological slant so they get more clicks and web traffic. The Top of Mind podcast would love to hear your Stick With It story. Can you think of a time when you felt your perspective or worldview challenged and, instead of getting defensive, you chose to lean into the discomfort – and you’re glad you did? Email your story to topofmind@byu.edu." Podcast Guest: Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle

Duration:00:33:20

Is Perspective-Taking the Key to Overcoming Polarization?

1/15/2024
Why is it so hard to see things from a perspective other than our own? Our perspectives are shaped by our life experiences and our biology – some people are color-blind, for example. As a result of these differences, no two people see the world in exactly the same way. And yet, when it comes to differences of opinion on issues that we really care about, we are quick to demand that everyone else see things the way we do. Psychologists call the ability to see from a different vantage point “perspective taking.” Is perspective-taking the key to overcoming polarization in society? In this podcast episode, we learn how our brains are wired to process information differently – some think in words, others pictures. We get practical tips on how to practice perspective-taking during difficult conversations. And, we learn about the potential pitfalls of focusing only on developing empathy to bridge differences, because some empathy leads to helping, some does not. Podcast Guests: Temple Grandin, professor of animal science at Colorado State University and author of “Visual Thinking: The Hidden Gifts of People who Think in Pictures, Patterns and Abstractions,” “Different Kinds of Minds” and “Thinking in Pictures: My Life with Autism” Monica Guzman, senior fellow at Braver Angels, host of A Braver Way podcast, and author of “I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times” Alison Jane Martingano, professor of psychology at University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, empathy researcher, host of “Psychology and Stuff” podcast

Duration:00:54:13

An Inside Look at Perspectives that Challenged the Top of Mind Team this Season

12/11/2023
We’ve spent the last several months on Top of Mind assessing the assumptions that drive our decisions. And we hope you’ve had a few “Stick With It Moments” as you’ve heard a perspective that challenged you, but you chose to stay open and curious – and keep listening! And hopefully that’s been good practice for “sticking with it” when you encounter challenging perspectives in your daily life. Because leaning into that discomfort leads to new empathy, more clarity on complicated issues, and a better ability to advocate for the things you really care about. While we’re producing the podcast, we have Stick With It moments, too. So in this podcast episode to wrap up Season 4, our host Julie Rose talks with the Top of Mind team about moments that challenged them in recent episodes about adoption, end-of-life decisions, immigration, police reform and political disagreement. Have you had a Stick With It moment listening to an episode of Top of Mind? We’d love to hear it. Email your story to topofmind@byu.edu. Podcast Guests: Top of Mind producers Samuel Benson, Alayna Beck, Vanessa Goodman, Amber Mortensen, and James Hoopes.

Duration:00:46:19

S4 E12: How Native Americans are Reclaiming Their Narrative

12/4/2023
More than three-quarters of Americans say they know little to nothing about Native Americans. Nearly the same percentage also say they rarely or never encounter any kind of information about Native peoples. What Americans DO know about Native Americans likely comes from inaccurate history lessons that keep tribes situated in the past. Or maybe from the antiquated characterizations in Hollywood films and TV shows. But a new wave of research, activism, and representation is changing the conversation; Native Americans are reclaiming their narrative. So today, what assumptions do non-Native people in America have about Native Americans, past and present? In this episode of the podcast, we talk to a former teacher and curriculum designer about bringing contemporary Native American history into the classroom through the arts, a researcher and media consultant about the consequences of invisibility, a reconciliation advisor about healing from appropriation, and a former elected tribal leader about the importance of strengthening Tribal sovereignty. Podcast Guests: Brenda Beyal, program facilitator of BYU ARTS Partnership Native American Curriculum Initiative Crystal Echo Hawk, president, CEO, and founder of IllumiNative; co-leader of the Reclaiming Narrative Truth project Adrienne Benjamin, multifaceted artist, educator, and reconciliation advisor to companies including Minnetonka Wayne Ducheneaux, founding and former executive director of the Native Governance Center and former Cheyenne River Sioux tribal council member

Duration:00:52:51

S4 E11: Immigration and America's Labor Shortage – Are Guestworkers the Solution?

11/27/2023
America is aging and many industries say they need more immigrant workers to do lower-skilled jobs Americans don’t want. Are they right? If so, how should we be looking at immigration and America’s labor shortage to find those solutions? And if immigration is not the answer, how will we fill the growing number of open positions in industries like healthcare and construction? In this episode of the podcast, we’re reframing the debate about immigration, with a closer look at short-term migration. We tend to think of immigration as being exclusively a permanent thing, but development economist Lant Pritchett says most immigration is intended to be rotational. Could immigration work better for America – and for the people who want to come here – if we significantly expand guestworker programs? We explore the history of guestworkers in the US, speak to someone who’s worked in America on an H-2A farmworker visa and consider the risks of expanding that program without significant reform. We hear about the need for better enforcement of existing immigration laws and border security. And we consider a proposal to meet America’s labor needs without more immigration. Podcast Guests: Bill Lowe, CEO of Chicago Methodist Senior Services Lant Pritchett, visiting professor at the London School of Economics, co-founder of Labor Mobility Partnerships Rebekah Smith, co-founder and executive director of Labor Mobility Partnerships Joe Martinez, co-founder and executive director of CIERTO Global Hector Benjamin Xoc Xar, former H2A visa worker from Guatemala Oren Cass, executive director of American Compass, author of "Once and Future Worker: A Vision for the Renewal of Work in America"

Duration:00:54:27

S4 E10: The Hidden Cost of Fines and Fees

11/20/2023
Fines and fees have become the default way we punish people in America; deterrence is the ultimate goal, but do fines actually deter bad behavior? Often the consequences of fines and fees are not felt equally, because what’s expensive to you might be pocket change to me. Still, the overdue book or speeding ticket costs the same for both of us. In this podcast episode, we interview a library advocate and former library director who successfully eliminated fines at his library. We also share the story of a man who struggled with traffic fines which led to 15 years of license suspensions. A former judge and advocate for reforming fines and fees shares how her organization is aiming to reduce the negative consequences of monetary penalties. And a behavioral economist who conducted one of the most famous experiments on fines discusses the many ways financial penalties can backfire, if we’re not careful. Podcast Guests: Peter Bromberg, associate director for EveryLibrary and former executive director of the Salt Lake City Public Library Fernando Martinez Jr., board member for the Texas Fair Defense Project Lisa Foster, co-executive director for the Fines and Fees Justice Center, former director of the Office for Access to Justice at the U.S. Department of Justice, and former California Supreme Court Judge Uri Gneezy, behavioral economist, professor in the Rady School of Manage at UC San Diego, and author of “Mixed Signals: How Incentives Really Work”

Duration:00:52:50

Stick With It Stories: Monica Guzman of Braver Angels on the Power of Curiosity to Bridge Divides

11/13/2023
Our “Stick With It” series on the Top of Mind podcast continues with Monica Guzman, senior fellow at Braver Angels, host of A Braver Way podcast and author of “I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times.” Guzman (a liberal) describes how countless political conversations with her parents (who voted for Trump twice) helped her understand the power of curiosity to bridge differences and reduce polarization. In this podcast conversation, Monica Guzman shares practical tips, starting with asking ourselves “What am I missing?” when we encounter a perspective that challenges us. “Certainty is the arch-villain of curiosity,” says Guzman. “Curiosity gets sparked at the gap between what you know and what you want to know. Asking ‘What am I missing?’ acknowledges the fact that in most cases you are probably missing something. So it gets your mind to get curious about the gaps that it’s refusing to see.” Top of Mind would love to hear your Stick With It story. Can you think of a time when you felt your perspective or worldview challenged and, instead of getting defensive, you chose to lean into the discomfort – and you’re glad you did? Email your story to topofmind@byu.edu.

Duration:00:35:53

Stick With It Stories: Monica Packer of "About Progress" on Coping With Criticism That Feels Personal

11/6/2023
Our “Stick With It” series on the Top of Mind podcast continues with Monica Packer, a personal growth coach and host of the popular About Progress podcast and Instagram community @aboutprogress. Packer’s professional and personal focus is choosing progress over the paralysis of perfectionism. Starting a blog and podcast were part of Packer’s personal commitment to trying new things. But it also opened her up to criticism that felt personal. She talks about choosing to lean into the opportunity to better understand a rejection from someone she respected. Over the course of many emails and one memorable phone conversation, Packer says she realized that while her critic had been making stereotypical assumptions about her, she was doing much the same thing toward him. Sticking with the discomfort of those conversations helped her understand the criticism was not as personal as she’d initially thought, and gave her confidence to continue being vulnerable on the podcast. Top of Mind would love to hear your Stick With It story. Can you think of a time when you felt your perspective or worldview challenged and, instead of getting defensive, you chose to lean into the discomfort – and you’re glad you did? Email your story to topofmind@byu.edu.

Duration:00:24:46

S4 E9: We Don't Agree on America's Founding Story. Do We Need To?

10/30/2023
Americans struggle to agree on even the most basic parts of America’s founding story. Some say it was divine intervention. Others, a scheme to profit off slavery, or simply a pursuit of freedom. Can we ever really agree on national narrative? Do we even need to? People are complicated and so is history. But when it comes to national narratives and founding stories, we tend to assume only one story can be right - and it's the version that most aligns with our own feelings about America. Simplicity might not be necessary, though. Can a founding story be complicated and contradictory and still do its job? In this podcast episode, a professor of classics recounts how the myth of Romulus and Remus laid a narrative foundation for the rise of the Roman empire. A history scholar explores America’s unique need for a founding story and traces the contributions of George Bancroft, William Gilmore Simms and Frederick Douglass. And a history curriculum designer encourages us to think differently about teaching American history and the nation’s narrative. Podcast Guests: Peter Meineck, Professor of Classics in the Modern World at New York University Colin Woodard, Director of the Nationhood Lab at the Pell Center at Salve Regina University, and author of “Union: The Struggle to Forage the Story of the United States” Abby Reisman, Associate Professor of Teacher Education at the University of Pennsylvania

Duration:00:52:50

S4 E8: Who Owns Our Cultural Heritage? — Museums, Repatriation, and Appropriation

10/23/2023
Who should decide how the stories and artifacts of a cultural heritage are shared with the world? For a long time, the assumption has been that as long as culture’s stories are told, it doesn’t matter who’s telling them. But who would you trust to tell your story? Museums of human civilization and culture are at the center of this conversation. Some are returning antiquities taken by colonial force. Others are consulting with indigenous communities to reframe the stories exhibits tell. But what’s lost when museum’s make the question “Who owns this cultural artifact?” their primary focus? In this episode of the podcast, we visit the famed Pitt Rivers Museum in Oxford to understand how 19th century ideas of white European superiority are perpetuated in modern museums. We speak with a prominent skeptic of repatriation who believes it undermines the power of museums to help us understand history and our place in it. We also hear a story of spiritual healing prompted by the return of Native American items by a small museum in Massachusetts. And then we make the issue modern and personal with a conversation about what cultural appropriation looks like in daily life and how we can appreciate, rather than appropriate. Podcast Guests: Marenka Thompson-Odlum, PhD, Research Curator, Pitt Rivers Museum at the University of Oxford Tiffany Jenkins, journalist and author of “Keeping Their Marbles: How the Treasures of the Past Ended Up in Museums and Why They Should Stay There” Ann E. Meilus Esq., President of the Barre Museum Association Manny Iron Hawk, member of the Lakota Nation; Spokesperson for HAWK (Heartbeat at Wounded Knee) 1890 Survivor Descendants society Renee Iron Hawk, member of the Lakota Nation; Secretary for HAWK 1890 Survivor Descendants society Mia Moody-Ramirez, PhD Chair of Journalism, Public Relations & New Media, Baylor University College of Arts & Sciences

Duration:00:52:50

S4 E7: Why Do We Insist on Proper English — and What Does That Say About Us?

10/16/2023
What's that one thing about how people speak English that gets on your nerves? When people say “like” a lot? Or say “literally” when they mean “figuratively”? We all have language pet peeves, and we may even be willing to admit that we judge people who break the rules. After all, how we talk matters. Why do we insist on proper English — and what does that say about us? In this episode of the podcast, we speak with an English professor and College Writing Center director about the experience of code-switching and how she learned to respect "Black language" as something much more than slang. Then, a sociolinguist explains the constantly changing nature of the English language and why “filler words” like “um” and “like” have a role to play. And a speech expert highlights the role listeners play when communication breaks down and offers tips for better understanding those who speak English differently. Podcast Guests: Wonderful Faison, Ph.D., professor of English and head of Writing, Rhetoric, and Research Services at Jackston State University Valerie Fridland, Ph.D., professor of Linguistics at the University of Nevada Reno and author of "Like, Literally, Dude: Arguing for the Good in Bad English" Melissa Baese-Berk, Ph.D., professor of Linguistics at the University of Chicago and director of the Speech Perception and Production Lab.

Duration:00:52:51

Stick With It Stories: Utah Governor Spencer Cox Learns to Disagree Better

10/9/2023
Our “Stick With It” series on the Top of Mind podcast continues with several stories from Utah Governor Spencer Cox about staying open and curious during intense political disagreements. As the new chair of the National Governors Association, Cox has made “Disagree Better” his signature initiative for the year. In this podcast episode, the Republican Governor of Utah explains how engaging with political opponents (including President Joe Biden) in a civil manner has led to better outcomes for his state. He also shares the story of a time when he fell short and went viral for calling members of Congress “imbeciles.” It got him a lot of praise supporters, but Cox quickly apologized and committed to do better. The “Disagree Better” initiative aims to use the unique influence of state governors to encourage healthier approaches to conflict in American politics and public life. Top of Mind would love to hear your Stick With It story. Can you think of a time when you felt your perspective or worldview challenged and, instead of getting defensive, you chose to lean into the discomfort – and you’re glad you did? Email your story to topofmind@byu.edu.

Duration:00:29:51

Stick With It Stories: Finding Empathy in Doctrinal Disagreement

9/30/2023
Our “Stick With It” series on the Top of Mind podcast continues with a story about finding empathy in a doctrinal disagreement. McArthur Krishna is passionate about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because it fills her with joy and helps her to understand her own divine purpose. But her public speaking and writing on the topic have been met with intense criticism by some members of her faith. Her Stick With It story explores the moment when she realized “Oh, I’m part of the problem because I’m being dismissive.” When she got curious about the reasons others in her faith view Heavenly Mother differently, she found new empathy and clarity. Top of Mind would love to hear your Stick With It story. Can you think of a time when you felt your perspective or worldview challenged and, instead of getting defensive, you chose to lean into the discomfort – and you’re glad you did? Email your story to topofmind@byu.edu.

Duration:00:15:48

S4 E6: Public Education is in Crisis. Are Elected School Boards the Problem?

9/25/2023
Ninety percent of America's kids go to public schools. But public education in America is in crisis, with test scores in every subject at their lowest point in decades. State and federal regulations have a say in what happens in schools, but most critical decisions are left to local school boards. Are elected school boards the root of the problem - or the key to a solution? Funding, facilities, busing, discipline policies, how teachers are placed in the district, and which curricula they use - all overseen by some 15,000 school boards chosen through local elections. But board members generally aren't required to have specific educational expertise - or even kids in the public school system. We are committed to democracy in this country and generally assume that electing people to make important decisions is best. How well is that working out for us when it comes to education? In this podcast episode we speak with a parent who helped recall school board members in San Francisco. We hear what it’s like to be a school board member right now and how the pandemic changed the job. And we’ll consider how the US system of selecting school boards during off-cycle elections often fails to hold boards accountable for student outcomes. Podcast Guests: Meredith Dodson, Executive Director of the San Francisco Parent Coalition Carrie Douglass, Co-CEO and Co-Founder of School Board Partners and School Board Member in Bend-La Pine, Oregon Ethan Ashley, Co-CEO and Co-Founder of School Board Partners and School Board Member on the Orleans Parish School Board, New Orleans Vladimir Kogan, professor of political science and public affairs at Ohio State University and author of the upcoming book No Adult Left Behind **This episode is part of Season 4 on Top of Mind: Assessing Assumptions. Could the systems we've built to keep our communities safe and thriving work better if we weren't so set in our ways?

Duration:00:52:50

S4 E5: Owning a Home is the American Dream. At What Cost?

9/18/2023
Owning a home is the American Dream. It's the ultimate symbol of a successful adulthood and the best way to build wealth in this country. Why should you pay rent to someone else when you can build equity for yourself, right? Not all countries prioritize buying a house, though; take Germany, where renting is much more common. How has the decision to prioritize homeownership in the US shaped our communities, for better or worse? And is that wealth-building mechanism really accessible to everyone who works hard and plays their cards right? Podcast Guests: Kelly Phillips Erb, Philadelphia-based tax lawyer and Forbes columnist aka “The Tax Girl” Feli from Germany, YouTuber and podcaster from Munich, Germany Lisa Rice, President and CEO of the National Fair Housing Alliance Jenny Schuetz, Senior Fellow at Brookings Metro, author of “Fixer-Upper: How to Repair America’s Broken Housing Systems” **This episode is part of Season 4 on Top of Mind: Assessing Assumptions. Could the systems we've built to keep our communities safe and thriving work better if we weren't so set in our ways?

Duration:00:52:47